Well, I guess Josh Duggar won the not-so-desirable prize.
When I saw the reports that the Ashley Madison website hackers were finally releasing the information they had stolen, one of my first thoughts was that it was likely that a few well-known Christian names were likely to appear on the list. Some pastors, Christians celebrities, actors or athletes. When something like this happens the fact that we are flesh and blood, frail to the bone, and sinful to the core, is usually reinforced for all to see.
Unless there are names that I haven’t seen, Josh Duggar is the first big name Christian celebrity whose name has surfaced as being an Ashley Madison client. Okay, folks, let’s just admit it. Josh is one messed up dude. As far as I can remember, I’ve never watched an episode of the Duggars, though I’ve watched a minute or two as I flipped through the stations. Those kinds of shows never appealled to me. I was busy watching Rick, Hoss, and Chumlee at the Pawn shop or catching as many episodes of the various iterations of NCIS as I could. I didn’t know Josh Duggar even existed until the molestation story came out. Now, he is admitting to an addiction to pornography and infidelity to his wife. The facts of this story are not in doubt.
I think it is fair to say that through the years Josh Duggar has been a hypocrite. He has maintained a public personna as a family man, an advocate for certain values, and has lived a life that undermined those values. This isn’t a judgment, folks. He admitted to hypocrisy – its a self-description.
I don’t know what the future holds for him, but I know true spiritual healing isn’t going to come until he faces himself in the mirror, stops playing games, and genuinely repents. God’s redemptive power is great enough to make a godly man grow out of the massive pile of bovine droppings that Josh’s life is right now. He’s made his life a mess, but God can restore and rebuild. God will only do that when the games end, when honesty begins, and he faces the truth.
One thing is for sure – right now he is one of the most hated, reviled, and despised men in America. After I read the article, I made a huge mistake. I perused the comments for a few minutes. Wow, wow, wowser-wow. They were vile, vicious, and eviscerating. And they tended to have one thing in common – the extrapolation fallacy. Based on Duggar’s moral failure, the commenters made dozens of deductions. Among them:
- All Republicans are hypocrites.
- These family values guys say one thing and do another.
- I always knew these Duggars had something to hide.
- The conservative Christians are all like this.
- You have to watch what goes on behind closed doors with those homeschoolers!
On and on it went. Whatever Josh Duggar was that someone didn’t like, he was proof that everyone who shared his opinions and viewpoint was exactly like that. It’s the extrapolation fallacy.
Josh Duggar is a homeschooler. Therefore, all homeschoolers are pedophiles, adulterers and hypocrites. He is opposed to gay marriage, therefore all opponents of gay marriage are just like Josh. Time and time again, the commenters extrapolated generalities about groups Josh belonged to, and not once did anyone bother to call them on the logic of that extrapolation.
We do it pretty often.
- I knew a Calvinist once who didn’t believe in evangelism. “All Calvinists oppose evangelism.”
- A traditionalist friend of mine told me he knew some Christian Rock musicians who led sinful lives. From that he extrapolated that all modern Christian music was wrong and that we should stick to the old hymns from the hymnbook.
- I was once badly treated by a person of (a particular race or national background), therefore they must all be bad.
Here is what we know about Josh Duggar. He is an adulterous, hypocritical mess. Even those who were willing to give him a pass for his “youthful indiscretions” (they were disgusting and awful) have to admit now that he has some severe character issues. He needs serious repentance, likely some intense spiritual counseling, and the power of the Spirit using the Word of God to the work of God in his life. There is no easy fix for that young man. I have no idea if his marriage will hold together. But he is a messed-up, broken man. I will not speculate any more than that, because all I know about him is the result of press reports from the doggone internets! But I don’t have to go out on a limb to say what I’ve said.
But you can’t really say anything about the Duggar family as a whole because of him. There’s 457 kids, right? If there is one bad apple, you cannot condemn the whole family. Please hear me, the Duggars are not my cup of tea. Dave is NOT a fan of the show or of some of their ways. But it is not fair to extrapolate from Josh’s failings to a general Duggar condemnation – at least not with the information we have now.
You cannot use Josh Duggar to condemn all family advocates, all conservatives, all homeschoolers, or any of the other groups he belongs to. If it is found that all the Duggar men had accounts at Ashley Madison, then extrapolate away. If someone can prove that the kind of things Josh did were encouraged in that world, then generalizations are fair.
But short of that, the extrapolation tendency is just a form of logical laziness. Rather than support my view with Scripture, with evidence, or with argument, I just extrapolate from some poor schnook like Josh Duggar and think I can win a point or two.
One more thing, especially for those of you who find the Duggars a little smug and annoying. If you take any joy or satisfaction from this Duggar downfall, then you have sin to deal with in your own heart. Jesus gave us some clear orders about loving our enemies and praying for others that are absolutely and unequivocally in play here. Smirking at the suffering of a fellow Christian family, even one that annoys you, is an offense against a holy God! They kind of annoyed me too, folks. But this is the time to lift that family up to the Father and ask him to bless them. This is knee time, not knife time.
Now, let me see if there’s an NCIS marathon on the USA Network.
Oddly enough the extrapolation fallacy doesn’t seem to extend to the Kardashians, although I did speak with someone from Jersey who spent years in voice coaching to lose the accent.
The real question may be ….what side of the hypocrisy does this reveal. My prayer is that Josh knows Christ. That being his only real cure and comfort.
His fame is really not all that famous, even as the media loves the hype and the story.
I wasn’t the biggest fan of the show, not because I had anything against the family, I just didn’t watch the show so much. Even so, I never found them annoying or smug. I don’t really get where that’s coming from. They seem like very godly people from what I have seen. Like you said, the fact that Josh is a hypocrite does not mean that his family encouraged his sin or supported it or are themselves participants.
No, you cannot extrapolate Josh’s failings to the whole Duggar family. You cannot even say that Josh does not believe what he purports to believe. How many of us have higher ideals than we live up to? This doesn’t excuse his sin.
But I hope the whole Christian country wakes up to the nonsense that is “reality” TV. Let’s face it, if the Duggars were an anonymous (even though slightly idiosyncratic) Christian family, this wouldn’t be news. But the Duggars sold out their family to be on TV. Yes, that’s a harsh judgement but I stick to it. They invited the media in to their home and their lives, and made big bucks doing it. When someone says “come, examine our lives (as long as you pay)”, then they should not be surprised when someone does it. They invited the scrutiny and no one should be surprised that something like this happens.
Yes, people will be unfair now in their vitriol and accusations, but the Duggars let them in the door.
One good thing about hypocrites.
At least they acknowledge what they did is wrong.
They admit that biblical morality is truth.
Unlike so many today
who say,
yes I did it and there’s nothing wrong with it.
And, you’re a hateful bigot for saying I’m wrong.
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
-Isaiah 5:20
The first step in being made right with God is to admit your sin.
And admit it is sin.
“If” we confess our sins…
From there we are to love and receive them.
And preacher, if you don’t already know, pornography and immorality will destroy you and destroy your ministry.
Stay far, far away.
http://bpnews.net/45340/josh-duggar-admits-to-marital-infidelity
David R. Brumbelow
David,
Josh only admitted because he was exposed.
All else you said is spot on.
Read Marty Duren’s article. It is about grace from Christians. Josh Duggar is an adulterer and worse. But he is also one who can receive God’s grace and be rebuilt by that.
David only repented when Nathan pointed the finger and said, “You are the man.” Yet his repentance was genuine. Is Josh Duggars? I guess time will tell.
Well, it is a fact that he admitted because he was exposed. But the alternative was to deny it. Admitting it was obviously the right thing to do even if it was because he was exposed.
Adam,
He admitted because he was exposed.
That means [the exposure] that denying he did wrong would be ludicrous.
On Judgment Day, when all sins are revealed, all will admit to what then is obvious, but there will be no merit in such admittance, only resignation.
Same here.
Better would have been to fess up before he was caught.
Motive for confession is the point.
Scriptural examples (and if we’re honest our own lives) demonstrate that sometimes confession after being busted can be just as real and contrite and truly repentant as is doing so before being busted.
Peter, David, Moses come immidiately to mind. And each of them more than once.
(By busted I mean sin was exposed first.)
Add Abraham in that mix too.
Tarheel,
Confession and repentance, not just confessing to what already is known.
In this case, we pray for him to show thrust of such repentance [even if we never find out while still here.]
Hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue.
Francois de La Rochefoucauld
NCIS is on Netflix! (The original, not the LA one.)
In other news, you’re dead on regarding the logical fallacy. The way that this fallacy works is that the people making the fallacy already have the conclusion in mind and they are looking for any way to push that conclusion. So Josh Duggar, the bad apple, gets exposed and they all pile on with a logical fallacy that lets them place him as the premise for their conclusion.
The thing is that they already had their desired conclusion. What reason do they have for holding that conclusion in the first place? Well, they won’t tell you that because it’s either a worse fallacy than the extrapolation fallacy or it’s not actually a conclusive chain of thought. These people simply hate God and are looking for an excuse for their hatred.
Ashley Madison claims to have 38 million members, other sites have millions more. Ashley Madison only puts a dent in the total number of people that are members of other sites.
We all threw a fit over the gay issue and what it’s doing to marriage, and totally failed to see the bigger picture. Sites like Ashley Madison has done more to destroy traditional marriage than the gay community could ever do.
Dave, I’m surprised at your seemingly defense of Duggar, and his downfall. I think you could be judging him wrongly. You are assuming he is a Christian. We have to be careful about our judgments.
This is only the tip of the iceberg. If the truth be told, there are a lot more church folks that are members of these type of sites than any of you have ever dreamed of. Like a couple who I met that decided to spice up their marriage. The husband decided to bring home six of his buddies, the wife was ready and waiting. I will not say anymore about this except they called themselves Christians. Now, they are divorced.
These are some of the reasons I come down on preachers, and their members. Many preachers close their eyes to sinful situations, and many church members have no morals at all.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some wonderful Saint’s of God in the church, but they are becoming few and far in between.
I become the pastor of a particular church when my eyes fasted on an elderly lady member who looked like what I have always thought what an angel would look like. Her hair was snow white, her face was a picture of kindness, if one could photograph kindness. I soon discovered she cussed like a sailor, and was a charter member of the church.
I have stories to tell that would curl your hair, this is neither the time nor the place.
May God help us all.
I sometimes wonder if you actually bother to read an article before you begin you pontificating on it. I’m not sure anyone would consider this article a defense of Josh Duggar.
Dave didn’t give Josh a pass. Read the article brother.
Dave,
You said this is knee time, not knife time. I agree it’s knee time, but I will swing a two edged sword also. I did read your article, and I think you are too soft on those who live in sin.
Dave, you said if anyone takes joy or has any satisfaction in Duggars downfall, that someone has sin in their own heart. I’ve heard this many times before from liberals who defend sin in the church, and are against discipline of any kind.
I’m one who hopes every hypocrite will fall, the sooner they get out of leadership positions the better. I guess that attitude makes me the worse sinner in the world.
I’m fine with that, because I’m not out to please people.
Dave, you also called Duggar a Godly man. Now tell me I’m wrong. Why didn’t you call him a lost man? You judged and called him a righteous man.
I neither called him godly or righteous
I would encourage you to read a little more carefully Jess.
Dave,
You related the “suffering and smirking of a fellow Christian family” to Duggar. Need I say more?
Jess, all you are demonstrating is either your inability to read and interpret English or your unwillingness to admit your mistake.
My point there was that the Duggar family – Jim Bob, Michelle, etc, is a Christian family.
Are you saying that the Duggars are NOT Christians?
I said that God could MAKE him a godly man if he would repent and walk in Christ.
You could not more fully misinterpret and misrepresent my p I st.
Wow.
Jess, you never cease to amaze. One can always count on you to write a comment that completely (intentionally?) misunderstands what the person you are responding to wrote. You can also be counted on to one day say something that completely contradicts what you said the day before.
You owe Dave an apology this time.
Adam Blosser,
I live to amaze you. In the future, if I say something that contradicts what I said the day before, please bring it to my attention and I will make it right.
Dave, I agree with you regarding the extrapolation fallacy. I want to consider the broader issue as it impacts our churches. How can we make our churches more “healing” places rather than “pretending” places? How can we discourage hypocrisy and encourage transparency? How can we foster a climate where confession of sin is encouraged and expected? (James 5:16). How can we embrace grace and truth together?
Also, how can we adjust our leadership criteria so that we are following people who are flawed yet accountable and in an honest pursuit of holiness. In this age of “photoshopped” celebrity leaders whose flaws are strategically shielded from the public, should we be surprised when a percentage of them turn out to be hypocrites?
Excellent comment John.
I have never watched an episode of the Duggars. I, too, did not know who Josh Duggar was until I heard about his molestation of his sisters.
I wish them all well.
This does not bode well for Josh Duggar.
Hey Jess,
Dave Miller said nothing in that article that was complimentary of Josh Duggar.
You made some good points in your comment, but the claim that Dave was defending Josh Duggar was not one of them.
Hypocrisy knows no limits.
How about that guy who is the head of “Black Lives Matter” – who is actually a white guy masquerading as a black guy!
In fairness, he disputes the accuracy of the Breitbart report.
Adulterous behavior is sin.
Homosexual behavior is in.
Duggar has admitted to being a hypocrite.
Hypocrite does not not necessarily equate to “lost” .
I am praying for Duggar and his family and I am praying for Jenner and his family. Sinful and disgusting choices affect more than just the perpetrator.
I meant to say that homosexual behavior is SIN…although it is also true that it seems to be “in” too.
RNS headline:
“SBC VIRGINIA PASTOR SAYS HOMOSEXUAL BEHAVIOR IS IN!”
Can we get that made into an Internet meme, or a t-shirt or something?
Maybe a pink t-shirt, or tie-dyed rainbow colors?
If you did, would a certain poster start reading his words before he hits “POST COMMENT”?
lol
I don’t think he is ever going to change!
Lol. Parson – you have little room to talk. 🙂
Glass houses and all that. 🙂
Tarheel,
Waht you takling abotu?
I think perhaps he thought your comment was directed at him. I took it to be directed at another commenter!
Dean – you’re about as funny as a train wreck. 😉
All Christians sin. All Christians fail God. All Pastors sin. All Pastors fail God. Josh Duggar is obviously struggling with sexual sin. This does not mean that he’s lost. This does not mean that he is more evil than anyone else. King David was a man after God’s own heart, and he committed adultery and murder. So, some of the people, who are coming down on him, and who are blasting this young man, need to examine their own hearts. Some of those people, who are condemning young Duggar, might want to take a long look at their own lives. Maybe there’s things in their own thoughts that they would hate for everyone to know? Maybe there’s things in their past, which they’d hate for people to know about? I bet so.
Now, what he did is wrong. What he did is sinful. He needed to repent. He needs to obey the Lord. Most certainly….and, so do we; amen? We need to love Jesus, and show it by our worship and obedience.
David
Volfan007,
Thou shalt not commit adultery. (one of the commandments).
My version of the N.T. says that no adulterer has eternal life abiding in them.
Jess,
I agree with you…adultery is a sin against God, and against your spouse.
I agree with you…..those who practice adultery will not enter Heaven.
BUT, saved people go to Heaven. And, saved people can sin, and they do sin. They fail God. And, when they fail God, they feel so bad about it that they want to get right with God. They want the mercy of God. They don’t want to live in it. And, God is merciful.
The younger son couldn’t stay in the pig pen. King David repented of his sin after 8 months, or a year. Samson fell many times…and repented….and failed….and repented. Peter failed God miserably…denying the Lord….and, the Lord forgave and restored him. Noah got drunk. And, Abraham…..well, you get the picture. There aint no perfect people, out there; not even Christians; not even Preachers. We’re all living in weak, sinful bodies in a fallen world. And, we all fail God…..you and me included.
David
Vol
I agree will all you just said, except the younger son and the pig pen. The younger son was a lost man.
(with) all you just said.
Parables ought not be interpreted that way, Jess. Parables are told to make a point. They are illustrations, not allegories.
Check your tenses (in the Greek) Jess before you paint with too broad a brush. Frankly, I have not–busy, plus recovering from 2 surgical procedures–but especially check if the word “makes” or “does” is before it. I remember that in 1st John, the difference between a Christian who sins and lost person is that little word. The best translation for the word (definition plus tense) is “lifestyle.” Mind you I am not defending Duggar; just making that much of a statement.
John
John Fariss,
Sorry about you having surgical procedures. I hope you are doing better.
I will make only say this: The very great majority of comments indicates an ignorance of what the Word of God says about this subject. I suggest to see what happened to Lot, Samson, Solomon; and even to David. The Scriptures makes it very clear what can happen to believers! There is not one true believer that can guarantee they might not trip along the way to heaven if not by the grace of God. If Duggar may be considered not a true Christian because of his failures, then the O.T. saints I referred to are not; and yet the Scriptures say they were! But we seem to forget what Paul says in Romans 7 about his own indwelling sin; which is true of all believers. Therefore, it would be of much help to other believers, especially to new converts, the dangers of indwelling sin if we are not taught the truth of it. I have found this to be true in most SBC churches that new believers are not taught these things that may prevent this in their lives.
Nevertheless, I pray that we be Scriptural in making judgments about topics like in this article for the exhortation and edification of God’s people so that by the grace of God, it may be for the prevention of it, and for the reconciliation of those that have done these things; for Christ Jesus’ sake. Amen.
Lasaro,
I believe you may be painting with a broad brush. Not everyone is going to commit adultery, or steal, or lie, I think we all have our own personal sins that we have to repent of, and new sins each day hinder us. But, a Christian does not practice sinning, the Holy Spirit will not let them. The bible says the Lord will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to bare. I believe along with every temptation God will make a way to escape.
As it says in Gal 6:1: “Brothers, if someone is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual should berate him, denounce him, make a public example of him, and thump your chest over your own holiness, which would never, ever, be tempted by that kind of sin, or tempted towards self-righteousness”…… Wait, wait, I must have picked up the wrong translation. I didn’t realize I had a copy of the “How too many people who call themselves Christian act” translation.
Actually, it says: :”Brothers, if someone is caught in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual should restore such a person with a gentle spirit, watching out for yourselves so you also won’t be tempted”. Shall I assume that a lot of those people who act as above just don’t consider themselves spiritual?
Of course, in this kind of situation, those who act to restore a brother with a gentle spirit are going to be making a lot less noise than the rest, and are likely to be drowned out in the public space.
Ben Coleman,
Very true, brother. But, the first thing that must be determined is if he is a brother.
Before you do that (determine if he is a brother), you have to consider if you really can reliably determine that based on media reports and gossip. If you can’t (which I think is likely), then you’re pretty much limited to praying for him, and praying for those who are actually close enough to the situation to be able to more reliably make that determination.
I rather suspect that, in a lot of situations, many people’s confidence that they can cut through the mish-mosh of supposed facts, speculations, gossip, and outright lies that the media often supplies us and determine the truth without actually being close to the situation, is more hubris than it is discernment.
David said, “He that done this deed shall restore fourfold,” referring to the man who took the little ewe lamb. In the process, he spoke of God’s judgment on himself for both sins, adultery and murder. I have a sermon on the subject, Pay Day – Today, a take off on R.G. Lee’s Pay Day – Someday. Dr. Lee was referring to two lost people, Ahab and Jezebel, whereas I was referring to believers who sin. The lost pay in the end and forever, while the believer pays and pays and pays and pays in this life. Sadly, I have to report concerning a pastor friend who became known for his immorality. He lost his church, his voice, his wife, and then his son. The family members died of cancer, and, last, he, too, died of cancer. That should give us all pause for thought. It was a grief to me, and it still is. We have a difficulty in discernment. When the disciples asked about the person who would betray Christ, they asked, “It is not me, is it, Lord?” No one seemed aware that the real culprit was Judas. After all, the Lord had appointed him to care for the money. But even though he preached and performed miracles, so I understand, he was as lost as lost could be. God’s people can be, and often are restored. Peter is a case in point. He denied the Lord three times, the last with a curse, and yet we see him preaching the sermon on the day of Pentecost. And by the way he refers to David as THE patriarch.