…so I thought it would be interesting to speculate on the phrase that could have followed that statement:
(a) “…can you believe that!”
(b) “…for crying out loud!”
(c) “…and I don’t know what the church is coming to.”
(d) “…great God Almighty!”
(e) “…our pastor is such a forward-looking man of wisdom and insight.”
All but the last would fit with the tone and expression of the speaker. The context was the general malaise of the church, lack of pastoral care, and seriously diffused focus.
I’m curious if having a marketing committee (or team, and I’d speculate that calling groups of church workers committees are so uncool to the ecclesiastical marketeers) is something commonly done in SBC churches these days?
Some of the churches I pastored had “publicity” committees which suggested ways to publicize the church, VBS, revivals, and other events. I recall that the committee always seems to have the same ideas that had been utilized for the past decade or two.
But a marketing committee would be tough for me to swallow. It just looks like a full and complete admission that one’s church is a business entity with a product to sell and we need to figure out how best to package it, get it on the community shelves, get approval from YEAH! Local, our consultants and persuade people to close the deal and buy it.
Reminds me of the time in my church when numbers were languishing and a deacon said, “It’s like we’re selling ice cream and people prefer to buy the ice cream from the store down the road so we better take a look at our flavors and find out why we aren’t selling.”
Of course, I was present. I only have half a tongue because of how hard I bit it to keep from an indignant explosion. The deacon was a good man just parroting something he had heard.
If my church had a marketing group exactly what would it do? Check the packaging of the Gospel? Suggest that the preacher drop the tie, always have a stubble on his face, shirttail out, roam around like a dog on a long leash, bark more and louder? Get rid of the pulpit, the pews? Hire a marketing consultant?
It seems to me that we men-of-the-cloth decided long ago that we were in the entertainment industry. I would just hate to admit it so openly. Same for being in the product sales industry where its all about packaging, pricing, and marketing.
Great God Almighty!
[First commenter who declares that his church has a marketing committee, team, or staff member get to say, “Dude, your day is seriously past. Go fishing or something. We’ve got this.” Just to humor and old codger, explain what I am missing.]
Not sure if it’s any help or not, William, but I work with a number of churches and I’ve never seen a church with a Marketing Committee. That’s a first for me.
Thanks. Neither have I. Pastors are usually clever with euphemisms.
William,
My church doesn’t have a marketing committee.
We do have three people who are members who have marketing backgrounds who want to use their talents to help people to hear about the Gospel and to help them discover our church.
I am thankful that they want to use their talents in this way and that they realize that they have a place to use their skills in the Body. Since I don’t know, or have time to learn, how to get our message out using various media outlets I lean on these three people to give advice to out elder council on these matters. It has kept us from wasting a TON of money over the years and has helped us to be more visible in a pretty cluttered media environment.
Do you know what the purpose of this church’s “marketing committee” was? Maybe they just chose the name poorly?
I don’t know much more in details.
Most of us recognize an old blogging stand-by on marketing the church (it’s a slow week). There are points to be made for and against. I had just never heard of a church naming a committee as such.
What you heard is an example of a larger problem. Churches in America made a strategic mistake in the twentieth century. Mainline churches embraced found common cause with the social gospel and progressive/liberal culture, and were soon subsumed by the culture (Peter Leithart “Between Babel and Beast” calls this the “beast”). Mainline churches continue their co-dependent relationship with the left; embracing as good whatever the left calls “correct.” Evangelical churches repeat this mistake by embracing conservative causes (Leithart calls this side “babel”). They continue to uncritically embrace the country with God, not realizing that Jesus is definitely NOT Lord of all in the United States. Regarding marketing, when our culture tells us we must consume, churches must resist becoming a consumable product. Consumable items are only good when they are useful, and quickly become obsolete. So, either way, the West dismisses the church as irrelevant or an obsolesce best left behind. This situation gives pastors and churches the wonderful opportunity to turn away from the left and the right, and to re-identify with their resurrected Lord. Only upon that repentance will we have the footing to call people caught up in liberalism and conservatism to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.
I do recommend reading Peter Leithart’s book, ‘Between Babel and Beast: America and Empires in Biblical Perspective” (2012).
Call me old fashioned, whatever, but in my old-fogey opinion, the primary marketing tool of the church is twofold – 1) the presence and power of the Lord Jesus displayed in the life of the church and 2) the ministry done in the community by that church.
If the fullness of the Spirit is evident and ministry is going on regularly, advertising is not that necessary. If those things are absent, the advertising will be in vain.
“If those things are absent, the advertising will be in vain.”
Amen Dave! If those things are absent, you are doing church without God. If those things are present, God promotes the ministry … no marketing gimmicks necessary.
Yep, restaurants that serve good food, and have genuinely, friendly service don’t need to advertise. People will spread the word.
David
The seeker-friendly movement was essentially built on a business marketing model. In the 1970s, I recall “surveyors” from groups considering a new church start going door-to-door asking folks what they liked and didn’t like about church. They tested the water to determine how the citizenry would prefer to do church in their community in order to join themselves to it. Much of the same techniques used by corporate America before introducing new product lines. As I read my Bible, I can’t find a church model built on “Tell us which way you want to go and we’ll get out in front to lead!”
Have you ever noticed how those same seeker sensitive churches you described seemed to always pop up in upscale suburbs? In my neck of the woods (lower to middle class semi-rural suburbs of St. Louis) I don’t see a lot of church plants.
Indeed, that is the marketing strategy. Identify the client base … sell it where the best buyers are. Easy church seeks those who have an easy living … “kick up your feet, relax with us.” The byways and hedges ministry is a tougher row to hoe, but usually more productive once it’s cultivated.
Amen!
I go to a Reformed church. Can someone explain to me what a committee does? 🙂 haha I kid I kid
Tyler,
It’s a group of people appointed to do something but tend to do nothing while talking endlessly about what are they are supposed to do.
😉
“Can someone explain to me what a committee does?”
They keep minutes and waste hours. Their members are typically unwilling, chosen by the unfit, to do the unnecessary. I’ve been in or near countless church committees in my 60 year journey as a Southern Baptist … I have yet to see a monument, plaque or pew dedicated to the memory of a committee.
Here is another side of this. Agreeing with the great comments of having the Power of Spirit and people being real as first and foremost, the idea of having consistency in all avenues of social media, web, etc. is not a negative nor does it remove the previous. In our situation, we know for a fact that even when people hear about us from real people, the first thing they do is check us out online. And thus, we have a team that works to make sure that first impression is a good one. In fact, we are currently revamping our online presence due to weaknesses.
A first impression from people is always best. But actuality today reveals that our online presence will be second if not first. And that requires attention.
How about this:
[url]https://baptistnews.com/ministry/congregations/item/30113-ohio-bull-riding-stunt-leads-to-300-baptisms-and-warnings-from-others-about-church-as-entertainment[/url]
Or fire engine baptisteries?Or Disney-type kid’s stuff. It’s a continuum and we all have a point where we say ‘that’s too far, too much.’
I guess I would see what is described in those two examples as “events” rather than marketing. Those events definitely had some marketing attached to them, but marketing is much more than that.
I would not be in favor of the bull riding/fire engine/free trip to outer space type events, but that’s largely based on personal experience as I have tried all of those in some form and have concluded that there is a difference between drawing a crowd and building a church.
I’m not opposed to “event evangelism” per se, but I don’t think it is a healthy, long term strategy for building a healthy church.
“… there is a difference between drawing a crowd and building a church.”
Amen Ryan! There is a church near me that runs about 500 attendees on a typical Sunday … only 200 have actually signed on over the years as members. The crowd would not be considered a congregation of the Lord. Mostly in their 20s-40s, they are attracted by free coffee and pastries (as advertised on social media), cool band, and a funny-man “lead pastor” propped on a stool on a black stage under a spotlight. The sacraments are made light of “Be sure to catch the communion grape juice and crackers before you leave – we bought the cheap stuff at Walmart.” Baptism is awkwardly promoted “Baptizing next Sunday. Never been baptized? Sign up on Facebook!” Hear me clearly on this. I was young and now am old. I don’t have a problem with form as long as there is some substance to it. But as I look at the condition of the American church in many places, it’s clear that Christianity Lite is spreading across the land and we are not scaring the forces of darkness with our presence.
We’re a little country church. We’re doing good to have a FB page. But I could see how growing urban churches might want to have a team of people that manages the church’s social media output and finds creative ways to engage the congregation on social media, if that’s what they’re talking about. Or if the “marketing committee” has conversations like “Hey, we’ve got this awesome marriage ministry. There are people in our community whose marriages are struggling. How can we let them know about our ministry?” Or making sure that the church’s PowerPoints, websites, bulletins, signage, and publicity materials are consistent, attractive and edited. Those things are all tools that can enhance our communication just like family life centers, homiletics skills, praise bands, and nicely paved parking lots. The question is whether the goal is to use available tools to communicate well with our community or if we’re just wallpapering over a weak foundation. If you’ve got a strong, gospel based church, a group of people who know how to wield marketing techniques well are a great asset. If it’s about style more than substance, that will show.
“A committee is a group that keeps minutes and loses hours”
– Milton Berle.
Milton’s generation, and those before, had church members who lived in the world of committee as it was defined by the world at that time in politics and social expression. Robert’s Rules and parliamentary procedures attempted to “codify” lose and non-uniform traditions from the 19th century forward. The church reflected the common procedures of the day, including the beloved committee.
The equivalent of “committee” today is often a “team” or “focus group” or perhaps an “advisory panel”.
My observance is that the Millennials make no more concerted effort at keeping church governance biblical than previous generations who were more than willing to use politically divisive terminologies. (ie. traditional, contemporary and blended) I see no more reference to biblical order today than in years past.
As such, they try and bring together, much less hold together, a body of believers in Jesus Christ with governance that bows allegiance to the old “white collar” committee or the new Hollywood approach to life, living and all things organizational for the church. The often resulting attitudes, if nothing else, might be our first clue.
And now, all the generations —
We still prefer to entertain for growth over true worship no matter the results.
We still rather like indoctrinating over disciplining.
We enjoy a good, simple, impossible-to-maintain covenant to enforce behaviors over preaching-teaching solid doctrine, cross bearing and abiding in vines.
We adore our “Praise Me bands” and their performances and prefer them over leadership of humble character who wants instead to be on the side and out of the light meant for all of God’s people.
It’s no wonder we need help from the Chamber of Commerce. We let them in the house and patted them on the back while they made us in their own image.
Maybe the first order of “business” is to make make a motion and have it seconded that we nix all these terms that we allowed into the church with perhaps well-meaning but still worldly minded attempts of marketing and “order”.
A cute, progressive letterhead logo and a winsome web-site will not somehow altar how we smell to the world, if that is indeed among our desires.
Whew! But I agree! Some day (hopefully soon), some surrendered preacher will step out of a prayer closet, stand boldly in his pulpit, proclaim a “Thus saith the Lord”, call time out to stuff, and lead his people in repentance, prayer, and seeking God’s face. They will linger there in tears and intercession until they touch glory. A genuine revival will be sparked, the world will take note, multitudes will come to Christ, and spiritual awakening will spread. However, I have a feeling that will only come on the other side of judgment after a consuming fire refines and purifies the saints. Going to be hard to get a committee up to market the approach of that day.
Well said, Glenn. I believe it’s called syncretism.
Having a marketing team essentially means that you are trying to sell something. So the question is, what are we selling? Our Sunday morning church services? Our pastors sermons? Our ministries? “You can get so much more out of OUR church than you can the next!” If that’s what you’re selling, you broadened your customer base from just “unchurched” to disgruntled members of other churches. We compete with other churches for bodies in the pew(chair) So what role does the Gospel play? Does it play a role at all? Some say “We get them in the door first, then they can hear the Gospel.” (Unless the Gospel is offensive and drives people away, which would work against your marketing team.) Regardless, you have to admit the real possibility that “selling” your church CAN become more important than sharing the Gospel. The Gospel, at best, becomes a secondary goal.
Every church is engaged in marketing in one way or the other. A church that puts something like “old fashioned preaching / KJV only” just engaged in marketing. Any church who puts their service times on the church sign just engaged in marketing. If you have a building and you put a sign on it saying this is _________ Church you have engaged in marketing. If you have a radio or TV broadcast, that broadcast is marketing. If you pass a flyer out, put a poster up at the grocery store, or have any kind of FB page or other web site, you engaged in marketing. If you are on visitation and dare tell the person your witnessing to what church your from, you just engaged in marketing. If you tell someone about how your church still does Total Church Program, Sunday night service, etc., you just engaged in marketing. If you tell your preacher buddy how much you dislike that seeker church down the street and how you aren’t doing that, you just engaged in marketing.
Not saying that marketing doesn’t take place, just what priority does it hold? In some cases, we can coin a new term ” market-driven churches.” And we wouldn’t be too far off the mark.
Like I said this subject is a staple of blogging fare. I think the greater danger for preachers is accepting (though not describing it as such) that we are really entertainers, not proclaimers.
Back in the day, having a Yellow Pages ad was an extremely effective way to communicate with newcomers that you existed. Less so now. Whether you conflate “marketing” with “advertising” is up to you…
The purpose of marketing is to let people know about the organization. You could argue that most evangelism has an underlying marketing value especially to the extent it is associated with a specific congregation. And that’s whether or not it’s called “marketing”.
Similarly, events like Easter usually receive some kind of marketing or advertising treatment if the church rents a facility at risk (of not bringing in enough in additional offerings). And one could argue that a year-over-year plan that communicates with the community the plans for the church such as special services, musical programs, and so forth.
Which is to say: I’m less worried than most about the idea of doing marketing/advertising (I do keep the two separate in my mind…but that’s a distinct discussion that I won’t delve into at the moment since I think it’s distracting from the conversation. With that said, the LDS marketing is in my opinion very effective as pure marketing. Their advertising that offers a free copy of the Book of Mormon is also effective since I’m sure they hear from people based on it…i.e. there is an effective call to action.)
I don’t think that we think of marketing/advertising when trying to be effective in communicating with communities because we view both as “worldly”. But if a “fable”/story with a heavenly purpose is a parable…
All churches market themselves.
– your church internet site
– the church blog
– ad(s) in the newspaper
– sign in front of the church
– tracts with the church’s name and address stamped on
– the follow up letter the pastor sends to visitors
– the letter the church sends out to its mailing list, or email list telling about a special event
– my church (a SB church) sends out mass mailed postcards 4 times a year to our expanded neighborhood.
We all use “marketing” and try to establish our “brand” in the community. Some churches do it better than others, but to pretend that we don’t market doesn’t change the fact we do.
SFG,
That’s true. We all get into marketing our Churches in some way. And, there’s nothing wrong with that.
But, the best marketing a Church can do is to be filled with the Spirit, truly worship the Lord from the heart, genuinely be loving and friendly, and have a Pastor, who preaches the Gospel and teaches the Bible with a holy passion. AND, that Church goes out into the highways and backroads to bring people into God’s Kingdom.
David
Of course, SFG is right.
But there is a balance there. I think we’ve attempted to use marketing to do what ministry ought to do.
TRIGGER ALERT FOR DAVE MILLER: this comment includes an emoticon…
We’re in nearly violent agreement, SFG 😉
Here’s the thing — nearly all of our churches do marketing of some kind or another (have a sign out front? do you tell others about the church in any way at all?), we just may not call it “marketing.” Marketing is simply communicating in a way that promotes, and we DO have something to promote.
Questions that are pertinent, imo, include:
Will we communicate in a way that keeps Christ and his mission central?
Will we communicate well or poorly? effectively or ineffectively?
Will we be good stewards in how we use our resources to communicate?
Will we use the means of communication that relate to the culture in which we serve?
Some above have decried things like “Disney-Based Kid stuff”…however a huge number of otherwise “traditional” churches annually engage in something that seems to fit with a more modern-style event: VBS.
Is there not a place for children’s ministry that includes both fun & discipleship? In addition to telling children the right things, is it also important to instill in them the idea that gathering with the church is something they WANT to do?
I know with my own 3-4 year olds…I can sit down and read them a chapter of leviticus, or we can sing the “SEEDS” scripture song based on Eph. 2:8-9. You can guess which they like better…AND which one instills more scripture into them.
Surely there is a balance here without jettisoning anything remotely related to “marketing”?
Just a follow up question. Did the person say why they had a marketing committee? Maybe it is to help streamline the churches programs. We all know that “programs” can take over and have so many scattered in different directions. Just a thought.
My church doesn’t have a marketing committee, but we have invested in a marketing consulting to help us use various media more effectively. We are already broadcasting on the local radio station (who also does a live web cast of their programming) and make sermons and various Bible teaching available on the Internet.
Marketing helps us understand our external audience better and helps us answer questions on morally neutral things regarding communicating to them as a church: Do we use email, social media, publications, the church web site, etc. in such a way that accurately represents the church, and maximizes our ability to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ? Even when we conduct evangelism in town, it should be okay to tell them what church we are from. Is it better to blanket the place with cheap brochures, or give a nice brochure when people ask, or is it better to put simple business cards with a simple logo and contact information on them in the Bibles and other literature we distribute? Or is there some other thing that we haven’t though of? So it simply helps us figure out the best approach in a social context that is increasingly diverse and often suspicious of churches.
Can it be abused? Sure. We need to be careful that it doesn’t present a temptation to alter the message of the gospel just to get people to come to church. The goal isn’t to get them to come to our church. The goal is to present the gospel in a way that makes sense to people. If they are going to be offended, let them be offended by the true gospel, not by the church behaving unwisely. Doing this doesn’t simply mean observing churches who seem to be getting it right and duplicating what they look like. I think that’s what a lot of churches try to do – often to their own peril. We’re in a unique place and we have a unique church profile. We need to figure out what works best where we are.
Every church who has a website is engaged in marketing. If you use social media at all you are engaging in marketing. Having a team to oversee all of this is actually incredibly smart.
Church marketing teams should always ask themselves A) Who are we trying to reach? and B) What is the best way to communicate to them?
If you have a group of people at your church who have backgrounds in design, advertising, PR or marketing you should use their talents in your church. From your website to your bulletin, let them volunteer their talents for good. I would caution Christian leaders against talking bad about people in the marketing world, it just isn’t right.
I’ll leave on this note. I work with hundreds of churches and have heard stories of people who were completely lost attend a church because they were invited by a postcard (not word of mouth like all Pastors hope for). Now those people know Christ. Life changed. Don’t limit how God can reach people.
Look, I started this because of the formal terminology used, “marketing committee” – I though that was interesting. I am well aware that there is an industry that provides services to churches in this area. Maybe some active pastor will tell if his church gets regular cold, telemarketing or spam from church marketing consultants. The capital fundraising equivalent used to wear out the phone lines with unsolicited sales calls. There was a lot of money to be made in that industry until 2008 or so.
There are line in here somewhere that most of us will not cross.
Here’s the two questions, circa 1980’s:
1. What are we selling?
2. How’s business?
This was the nifty quiz some highly successful megapastors inflicted on the ‘unsuccessful’ micro-pastors.
We’ve updated some of the terminology.
Cynicism doesn’t sell or i’d really retire.