Agony
We’ve read for some time about the coming tsunami of church closures and now at least one state convention has a program and staff person whose responsibility includes “serving interested churches that are near closing and helping find creative solutions like mergers, cooperatives with other churches, or even utilization of property for church planting.” Sad to see but I’m glad there is a resource person in this area for churches to utilize. A sub-plot in this church closure/merger business is will be megachurches grabbing the assets of dying or dead churches for their real estate value. It’s quite sad, agonizing, to watch a church die.
Irony
Some are loudly complaining about the number of allegedly Calvinistic CEOs of our SBC entities, yet the reaction of Southern Baptists as a whole has been quite positive. Both NAMB and IMB, whose leaders are on the complaint list for certain circles of SBCdom have presided over record offerings. Both entities had serious leadership failures that have been corrected. Midwestern seminary seems to be doing better with their new leader. It is ironic that while these entities are clearly stronger, criticism mounts…but I understand that it’s not about good leadership or greater support from the churches. There’s also a certain irony in a kitchen table theological statement, one that was created by no one elected by any SBC body and has been adopted by not one SBC body and which has the written support of .00007% of Southern Baptist members, being foisted as the requirement for the next SBC entity CEO hire.
Enmity
I happen to think that theological tensions in SBC life are not inherently unhealthy but may become so. We’ve always had various theological subsets in SBC life, the most notable of which is Calvinists and Arminians (choose your own labels if these cause your teeth to grind). When one anti- group chooses language that is clearly and deliberately pugilistic, perhaps there is a whiff of enmity that needs addressing.
Apathy
Pick a random, faithful Southern Baptist church member. These theological tensions are irrelevant to them I suspect, and are lower on the ecclesiastical priority scale than important matters such as the election, which side of the church the flag goes on, and the preacher’s tonsorial preferences.
___________
…but we can look forward to this June’s Pastor’s Conference.
Mormons could have been elected as entity heads and the people in the pew would not care. They would just dutifully send in their CP dollars ‘for missions’ when ONLY $5-10 FOR EVERY $100 GIVEN goes to what they think it all or at the vast majority goes to.
Please show any situation where “$5-10 for every $100 given” goes to what Southern Baptists think it goes to. That’s not even close to true—even in state conventions that keep a high percentage of CP dollars in state. Honesty & truth matter, and this comment shows appreciation for neither.
The avg person in the pew thinks $CP GOES all or nearly all goes to INTL missions to provide direct help to missionaries in their work. In MO we keep $60. So that leaves $40. Everything but NAMB and IMB is maybe $10 (my guess) of that leaving $30. IMB and NAMB split that 50/50…down to $15…and then perhaps 50% of that goes to missionaries on the field…$7.
Lots of “nearly’s”, “guessing”, “”perhaps”, and ‘Maybe’s’ in your statement that you are offering as though it were authoritative….
Reminder: We are not talking about Tom Brady here and you are not Roger Goodell.
The average to the two mission boards would be about 30% of that CP offering plate dollar. Let’s not have fake news here, please. 😉
Even if you just limited it to IMB we’re talking between 18-26% of church CP giving depending on the state allocation. That’s not including NAMB, seminaries, which are approximately that much again.
I think a little more specificity would help clear up any misunderstanding. In Alabama, the average SBC church forwards 7.17% of all undesignated receipts to the Alabama State Board of Missions. (See http://ricklance.com/2016/04/11/ten-cooperative-program-facts/). Thus, for every $100 that a person puts in the plate in the average Alabama SBC church, the church keeps $92.83 and $7.17 goes to the SBOM for the CP. Of that $7.17, the Alabama SBOM retains 45.5%, or $3.26 and forwards the remaining $3.91 to the SBC. In 2015 (the last year that I could locate an official document detailing an actual percent allocation, see http://www.sbc.net/pdf/cp/2014-2015CPAllocationBudget.pdf),… Read more »
Glad you gave the link Rick Lance’s article because it led to to one erroneous conclusion. When Lance says that “Of total receipts received by the SBOM in 2015, the SBC received 55.5 percent” what he means is NOT that the state retains only 45.5% of the CP dollar but that if you add in the Lottie Moon, Annie Armstrong, and other smaller designated offerings the SBOM keeps only 45.5%. One of my complaints about how states communicate their financial information is this exact technique which confuses people like you into thinking that the state keeps much less of a… Read more »
“It keeps close to 60% of a CP dollar.”
In the most recently approved CP budget, the percentage split is 53% state and 47% national, so it is actually much closer to 50% than 60%.
http://bit.ly/2ikTTs4
Thanks for the latest information. Alabama is ahead of almost all of the other legacy SCs.
William, Appreciate the link to the SC story. That’s a great move by them. I had not seen that yet. Also in the story and related to your 10 questions article: “Heard from Hollingsworth the result of a board inquiry about the financial feasibility of maintaining the convention building in Columbia. Hollingsworth reported that although there is unused space as a result of downsizing from 112 to 70 staff members, over the past several years, factors of geography, strategic church service, ministry partnership, and financial stewardship don’t add up to the disposal of the convention building at the current time.… Read more »
I was in SC when the building was built. It was needed. At some point I’d guess that SC baptists would receive an offer for it that would be quite attractive. It’s Class A space in a great location. I appreciate that leaders keep folks informed by anticipating and giving straightforward answers to questions.
To add to the apathy column, why will 90-95% of the members of SBC churches never share their faith? Why do only 6-8% of the graduates of our SBC seminaries go to the nations? Have we made the Great Commission a suggestion and not a command? Now back to class at one of the six seminaries built and supported with CP dollars. This student appreciates the support of current and past churches that made my studies possible. Thanks also for those who give to Lottie every year so we can send people to the ends of the earth to reach… Read more »
State Conventions, Local Associations, and smaller churches decline, downsize, and some go away. Seminaries, large churches, and church planting grow. The two mission boards are in between the continuum with decline, then growth. We’re seeing a pretty significant realignment here of people, power, and finances in SBC life. No wonder there is so much ruckus over who gets to control it all – or who gets a piece of the pie. Not to be cynical, and this is just a hunch, but most of this isn’t about mission, per se. It is about making sure that certain groups have a… Read more »
And, when I said, “most of this” I meant the controversy over what was happening, not what was happening itself. That can very much be about mission, if it is handled correctly.
I have been saying this exact thing for 5 years or more. The controversy over Calvinism is not at it’s heart about theology, it is about control. That’s why you see more and more of this nonsense touting what % subscribe to a certain position, quotas based on these imagined percentages, and a misguided attempt to connect every appointment to a conspiracy launched at SBTS.
It’s almost comical if it weren’t so sad.
William, good article.
Question…you keep say “we” when referring to the SBC pastors conference – does that mean that the great plodder will be making a cameo in Phoenix?
I would really like to meet you face to face.
Not sure…would love to. No church…no budget account. I’d love to see the hoi polloi.
Great post. I can’t believe that normally descent folks continue to have the Calvinist/Armenian debate, but then again I guess we do need something to fight about as Southern Baptists.
I think it’s indicative of something that hasn’t been talked about enough: spiritual maturity. Let me tell you what I mean: We are generally content to leave people on an average level of spiritual maturity. At least a few factors are at play here: 1. The general anti-intellectualism in the culture at large infiltrating the culture. There is a war of pride in this one. I love my family. There is one branch of my family that can be trying at times if only because they’ve always practiced a bit of one-upmanship. It’s hard to share anything you are doing… Read more »
Co-sign. Well stated my brother.
Jim, that’s it in a nutshell. (Hey, perhaps we could do a book and title it something like “Nutshell Theology.”)
That actually sounds like a really good idea, Dave. A succinct systematic theology accessible to people with limited knowledge of the Bible and church history that inspires them to continue learning. We’ll have to wait until I get through with my seminary courses (in about 3 years) before we get “cracking,” however.
Gee whiz,Jim, I’m nearly 70. Could you hurry up?!
At 50, I’m still young by comparison. If we were Moses, we’d still have the Exodus ahead of us.
No one has commented on William’s mention of churches taking over failing churches. That is happening more and more. Mega-churches take over failing (or closed) churches and reopen them under the mega-church’s label. My son and his family attend a campus of the Woodside Bible Church in Michigan, in the suburbs of Detroit. From visits there I know that Woodside has absorbed several struggling churches at the request of those churches. I am not criticizing what Woodside is doing. Woodside Church is theologically sound, and they also start new campuses. Surely, it is a good thing that these churches gain… Read more »
I would like this idea a lot better if the mega-churches saw these re-openings as bona fide church plants, with a view toward increasing local church autonomy, rather than satellite branches of the main campus.
Amen, David.
I agree with David here. It’s kind of like a city-state. This would be like a church-association in the same way, where a single church acts like a whole association. On the one hand, there sometimes comes a need for the help of other churches beyond just pooling our resources. For example, a bad pastor comes along, commits egregious transgressions, and for whatever reason the deacon board has lost the power to oust him. They need other churches to come in and help. I’ve seen this happen. Another example was a few years ago now when our sister church lost… Read more »
Jim, I absolutely love your comment here, and the example of your church helping out a sister church in need. While I don’t believe in “connectionalism” per se, I think at times church autonomy on steroids moves us away from the cooperative mindset of the NT Church-churches.
I agree, David. This is one reason why I joined an SBC church rather than an IB church when my wife and I left the Lutherans.
What would be nice is autonomous churches filling the void of a struggling church. If a megachurch, the easy to attack faceless “foe”, purchases the land/building that a struggling/dying church occupies then I see a few clear issues. First the area must be a vibrant area as megas are smart enough to not go where no one lives. Secondly the current church is clearly not reaching that area. If they were they would not be struggling/dying. The third issue is that another church is willing to fill that void and try to reach the community there. Should that not be… Read more »
The issue that bears watching is the church that agrees to take over and revitalize in some fashion the dying church, is deeded the property, gratis, closes the church, sells the property and puts the money elsewhere. Some churches have disbanded and have given their property to associations or to an ethnic church (neighborhood changed), etc. No problem there.
Not common. One tiny church near me (not SBC) sits on property worth several million. Magnet for ecclesiastical vultures.
Louis, your post has had me thinking, and debating whether to post a response in this thread. I am a pastor of a dying church in a dying community. I don’t say that as a prophet (nor am I complaining), but just say it as an observer of the “natural order” of things. Our church ceasing to exist will be a natural result, barring unforeseen changes, as natural as the inevitable death of the aged. The young people of our community have relocated to cities where there are jobs and opportunities. The old people (the saved ones at least) are… Read more »
This is a good discussion on take-overs. As usual, I appreciate David Rogers’ comments. Louis makes some excellent points. Personally, I encourage dying SBC churches to deed their properties to their association or state convention so that the association/convention can restart the church. In urban settings this is usually an ethnic rather than an Anglo church. I know that Sojourn Church in Louisville has purchased church properties in the inner city and established new Sojourn campuses. This should be commended. Lots of pastors say, “Why doesn’t the association help _______ church so that it doesn’t die?” I know from personal… Read more »
Mark,
Are you aware of any good merger success stories? I would be interested to know (if anyone has ever researched this) the factors behind mergers that succeed vs. mergers that fail.
Not Mark but this church http://www.tccherrydale.com has been touted by NAMB as such a story. The cynic can say that four became thus we lost church numbers but one healthy church can reach more than four unhealthy ones.
Four became one.
An edit button after posting would be a great addition here for people like me.
David, I know that Antioch Church in Louisville merged with another church (can’t remember the name), and that has gone well. I believe there was another merger in Louisville before that, but I have not heard how it went.
Check out Family Church led by Jimmy Scroggins in South Florida. They have been able to recycle dying churches into thriving neighborhood churches.
http://www.familychurchnetwork.com/
I’m glad to hear about this. I taught Jimmy at Southern Seminary. He is a great guy.
I hope what I wrote did not sound harsh. It was not meant to be. In NorCal I was recently a lay member of a church in need of revitalization. It was planted after WWII by Southerners and now two generations later it was held together by widows. It had not adjusted to the demographics of the community and had not reached out enough. That is not all on those lovely members as there had been bad decisions by many over the years that produced the decline. The days of a family moving to town and looking for a church… Read more »
Louis, if you mean me, no I did not take it as harsh. Though I don’t agree with you on all points, I think we agree on your point that a church is not (supposed to be) a museum. I love church history, but a church simply existing for the purpose of continuing to exist is pointless. My trepidation in replying was unrelated to your “tone”, but in regard to how it might sound to pronounce my church a dying church in a dying community. But it is not something we as a church are unaware of, or have not… Read more »