The flagship blog of SBC Traditionalists, SBC Today, announced a few days ago that “for the forseeable future” they would take a “hiatus.” I guess that means they gave up the ghost, although with one short post since the announcement a light pulse is felt. May it be hereby noted that this was done on the eve of Reformation Day. Someone ought point that out and I’m happy to oblige.
The news was noted in no less than Baptist News Global where Bob Allen had an informative article. At least one additional popular site for Baptists made note, also.
Frankly, I hated to see it partly because of nostalgia, SBCT has been around for a long time in blog-years. Also, I can think of several reasons that another reinvention or reiteration of the blog would be good for us all.
- I hate to see a good brand wasted, and SBCT was a good brand. Folks knew about it and some in the last few years would even admit to reading it. I followed it closely.
- I’d hate to see the field left open to the Calvinists. If my reformed brethren and sistren have demonstrated anything it is that they need some checks, the Holy Spirit not getting through on a few occasions.
- There are some issues that need public airing in the SBC and even SBCV might not touch some of them.
- There’s the Traditional Statement, somebody ought to do something with it rather than just let it sit to collect another online signature or two. Only 18 months ago, there was a call by Trads to amend the Baptist Faith and Message. No one else had the boldness to even tiptoe up to that even though there are areas where the BFM is outdated.
- There should be at least some degree of examination of all the social justice language in the SBC without doing so with your hair on fire. Unfortunately, the old SBCT was too infused with “woke,” “SJW,” and tinfoil hat stuff in this area. The SBC of 2018 is sounding like the old CBF of 1998. Maybe this could be sensibly analyzed.
- The blog was a source of concrete ideas worthy of serious consideration. Rick Patrick had ideas on the Cooperative Program. I disagreed with most of them but they were legitimate ideas. No one else was sticking their neck out on this and someone needs to put some ideas on the table unless we just want to watch the slow decline continue.
- The blog had articles that sometimes made me mad. Not a bad thing to have around, actually, not that my state-of-mind means anything to anyone other than my wonderful wife and aloof cat.
It shouldn’t be too difficult for someone to crank this up again, unless the age of blogs is past and we can all talk about what our favorite Halloween candy is on Twitter.
____________
I was emailed and told to “leave us alone.” Bro, no one gives me orders, not even my wife. She only makes suggestions, all of which I accept with alacrity.
[But take this in good humor]
I appreciated some of the articles at SBCT, but the comment section was impossible. And what’s the value unless you can discuss the article?
I agree. It take a lot more moderation now than in years past.
There’s much I could say about that blog…. but let me limit it to this:
Thank God for Dave Miller (and his team) and the integrity out of which he has consistently, for all these years, applied a fair and godly moderation that ought to stand as a worthy example for any other would-be Christian discussion site. I’ll bite my tongue and stop there.
Gotta admit, will miss reading stuff by the “crazy uncles” of the SBC Family!
Moderating comments is a pain. Many will not govern themselves and if you moderate them they make it a character flaw in you.
I have worked for 10 years to figure out a workable system and haven’t.
I won’t comment on theirs. As someone who was blasted frequently in their comments I could not be objective.
I’ve had the honor of being blasted as “one of Dave Miller’s friends.” 🙂
A terrible insult.
I was accused of being Dave’s friend. I flatly denied it–three times in fact! Then, a rooster crowed and it kind of freaked me out. 🙂
I am not sure whether to thank you or ban you.
Dave you take great pride in your moderation policy at SBC Voices. Did you moderate and approve CB Scott when he wrote the following and numerous other similar comments about me, “I stated that you are bitter and you are. Anyone who reads what you write here or on any Baptist related blog would recognize you to be bitter. If you were the feeder of the monkeys at a blind monkey zoo, every monkey you feed would know you are bitter. They would sense it. Bitterness sprays out of you like stink out of an angry skunk.” Did you write him you approved or did you say way to go CB.
Did you moderate and approve when CB Scott also wrote, “Back before the CR, there were liberals in charge of most every state convention (yours (Arkansas) included, seminary, Baptist college or university and every other SBC entity (IMB). That’s just a fact and no matter how much you deny it, it is still true.” SBC Voices under your moderation is known as a free fire zone for attacking entities and people with the liberal claim without accountability or proof.
Dave who moderates you when you write I am, slanderous, bitter, consumed by hatred, I hate the SBC, I do not object to liberal theology, I should leave the SBC and worse. Do the administrators at SBC Voices all approve of your comments.
Dave, I have never written a personal attack on you, CB or others but that is the SOP for your answer to any thing I post.
Ron, bitterness will eat your soul if you do not deal with it.
I am told that you are a good man but the grudge you carry and the bitterness must weigh you down like an 800 pound gorilla.
Let it go, Ron. It hurts YOU.
And, Ron, you just wrote a personal attack. Your blindness competes with your bitterness.
I think you spoke lies about me as well, but I don’t care. I don’t hold on to those old things.
I do cringe when I see a Ron West comment because I know there’s a good chance you will be rehearsing an ancient grievance.
I don’t remember CB’s comment-I don’t read half the comments made here – but whether it was kind or not it was undeniably TRUE.
If someone said name a commenter with a bitter soul it wouldn’t take me half a second to name you. I don’t know you on real life but that is your demeanor at Voices.
If you don’t like it…CHANGE.
How can it be a personal attack on you when I only repeat words you have said that I have copied and pasted from your comments? How can that be a lie? I am not bitter about anything. I just like to offer factual rebuttal to some of the statements on this board. You and CB often sound bitter about that but I will not call you bitter, just mistaken.
So you also believe it is true that the Arkansas Baptist State Convention was liberal and controlled by liberals. CB and you just state it is a fact without proof. I live here. I know it is not or has never been true. Why do you think it is true. Doug Hibbard, Mark Terry, Dwight McKissic, Bart Barber are also from Arkansas. Perhaps they agree with you and CB but I doubt it.
You keep a collection of quotes to prove that people offended you? Isn’t that kinda the DEFINITION of holding a grudge and bitterness? Really, Ron, move on.
The only truth I was referring to is the bitterness I see in you – which makes me sad. You seem trapped in injuries that were inflicted in the 80s – and that is a long time ago.
Holding on to offenses like that enslaves you, Ron.
I have no idea about the Arkansas convention.
Love keeps no record of wrongs. Let’s move on, Ron. Clearly, you feel I’ve aggrieved and offended you. So, let me apologize for that which I have done to offend you, Ron. Can we move forward and stop looking back?
Ron, this post had NOTHING to do with your past grievances and you have hijacked it. Please drop the topic. If you wish to contact me, do so at my email. Any more of your comments on past grievances will just go to trash.
Move on, Ron. For YOUR sake. Move on.
William,
As a guy on the reformed side of things, I will miss SBC Today because it pushed me consider what/why I believe. Healthy pushback lets us dig deeper into the Bible for what we believe.
On non-soteriology issues in the SBC, they gave a voice that caused people to consider the status quo.
They’ve referred to the Soteriology 101 site. The discussions are theological and generally mind numbing, IMO, but that may fit the desires of many.
I swear William, you like controversy and call it checks and balances. I hated the blog and glad it’s gone. It was full of hate, hate, and more hate. The comments were reflection of the opening post most times the authors were just afraid to say it. They let their commenters do that for them.
Welllllll, I wouldn’t put it like that. I don’t agree with all the comments here but no one gets kicked in the teeth.
Yeah now they don’t. Ha. BTW I am sitting here listening to Matt Redmond and Jeremy Camp live in concert. Just had to brag. Ha
That should be Matthew West.
I wrote the above during a 15 minute break in the concert. If they come to anyone’s town, get tickets, great concert.
I think there is an unappreciated problem in the SBC that is being neglected. For example SBC Today did not have a large following nor were most SBC members aware of it. The same could be said of SBC Voices or even Baptist Press. The “average” SBC member follows local church events and has trust in their local leadership and that transfers to the SBC at the state and national level. They are not aware of the events and direction the SBC is taking at the national level. I would say 80 percent of my local church is totally unaware of the past , serious financial crisis of the IMB. They did not know much or have much desire to follow the efforts of David Platt when he was IMB President, again to sum up, it is trust.
Most local Pastors do not spend a lot of time discussing or bringing SBC issues into their church conversation for a variety of reasons. I would say the majority of SBC members are “traditional” in the SBC Today description. There is a growing divide between SBC leaders and SBC members on the social, cultural and political issues.
So any valid , fact based , opinioned site that promotes good interchange for SBC members would be good. How many SBC members would be in agreement with many viewpoints expressed in article and comments on SBC Voices, if they followed online?
I think a monthly printed newsletter , passed out monthly at all SBC churches with updated news, directions and opinion pieces as well as explanation of certain new efforts in all areas would be of help. There is not much transparency for the average SBC, who take their leaders on faith alone.
You would be surprised who knows these blogs exist Steve. You under estimate the church goer Steve.
You are right, Debbie. For many years SBCT had many followers. Competed strongly with Voices.
We never publish our “hits” but I believe that before we started growing back around 2009 and 2010, when SBC Today was an established blog, they were likely well ahead of us in traffic. They rose earlier when we did. After that, the metrics said we outpaced them, but certainly they were an active blog.
Kinda miss Technorati.
Debbie, see Lynn’s comments below. I believe she is far more representative of the “average” “typical” SBC member who does just what Lynn describes .
Never heard of this before tonight. I am not sure how I even found SBC Voices but have enjoyed reading some of the comments here and I would have read the other blogs too. Many people in the local congregations have not idea what is really going on in their churches much less on the national level. They come to worship in their sanctuary and go home.
Lynn, thanks for your comments. I have been in various SBC churches for years and your final sentence is exactly my point. Majority of SBC members like most church goers, come to worship, trust their local leadership and are too involved beyond the local level or have much knowledge about SBC workings. Look what happened to many main line Christian denominations as their organizational leadership took them a more liberal direction on social, cultural and political issues resulting in a conservative/liberal split and a lost of membership in general.
Most SBC members do not know who Russell Moore is or J.D. Greear for that matter. If they do it is very basic. That is why the strange dichotomy that is developing on the social and political viewpoints between the “average” SBC member and the leadership. 80% of SBC voted for Trump , actively opposed by SBC leaders for the most part and the developing rift over immigration that is simmering, again with the SBC member total unaware.
steve,
I agree with you.
But only from a limited viewpoint.
Which is really limited since it is only limited to my church.
No one I talked to there knew much of anything about Traditionalism, or that blog, or Voices.
But those i talked to were older people, like myself, but not necessarily ones who read blogs and do twitter. They do Facebook and that is about it.
Whether my experience is representative of SBC folks in general, I have no idea.
Michael White, My Mother who lived to be 98 always told me this, When she moved into her condo , she helped the little old lady at the end of the hall then one day she realized she had become the little old lady at the end of the hall.
I now define the “older” people as those in their 80’s as I am now 70 and those in their 60,.’s as young. I do agree with your point but here I am on a “blog” but my interest in Facebook and a lot of what is online is very small. Like you my viewpoint on this is antidotal , I have no statistics but I have and do travel a lot and attend various SBC churches in different cities.
However, I always thought Snickers was the best selling candy in the USA but found out it was #3 behind #2 Reese Peanut Butter Cup and #1 M and M , like many things in life , my personal preference influenced my opinion. However at times , we have to make a form an opinion based on what we know. I was surprised that Snickers was #3.
Twix should be #1. Candy corn is the devil.
I must put in a vote for Butterfingers. Where did they rate?
SBC folks in general are pretty informed. More than you think. I am one of many. It’s why there are so many blogs from SBC folks. Look around. Messengers are more informed than ever. They knew what they were voting for this summer.
I agree, and social media for the younger generation (and for some of us older folks) has enhanced that knowledge and involvement. However, I would still argue, (don’t have stats), that high majority of messengers were clergy and wives.
Pretty Close Michael. Most average church members are not interested in our debates and such and whether we should elect a minority, a woman, a Calvinist, a Traditionalist, and so on. So, we could argue that they should care. It goes back to the pastor and staff leadership. I for one would not lead my church members to SBCT. It would confuse them. And I don’t mention SBCV very often. Obviously, there are many well-informed lay people who contribute and follow this site, which is great. However,
I think we overvalue our personal opinions on these things. (Of course I am giving mine now too) and really expect people to value what we have to say. For the most part, our lay people are just not interested in all our “preacher” discussions. Many, if not most pastors are not interested in these discussions. They are actually doing ministry or playing golf while we are on the computer. And I think that is fine. For those of us who enjoy it, good for us, for those who don’t, good for them.
Steve, we pay for a copy of our state Baptist newspaper to be delivered to every church member’s home–which has news, a lot of reprint of BP stuff, and some opinions on what’s going on in the SBC.
Folks get it, and maybe half of them read more than 2 pages of it. One more piece of paper, in terms of an additional monthly newsletter, won’t do much good. People who want to know can know, pastors who want to encourage their church to be connected have plenty of tools available.
We just don’t use them. Either because we think disconnect is better or because we’re afraid of what will have to change if we have pews filled with people who know what’s happening in the SBC.
I’m not sure which. The information is available. We just don’t do well at spreading it.
(And you know Baptists: send a bundle of newsletters to some churches and ask for it to be handed out, we’ll throw it away just to demonstrate our local autonomy. Can’t nobody tell me to handout a newsletter!)
I think the beginning of their decline can be traced to when they started personally attacking people (examples: Russell Moore, J.D. Greear) with regularity more so than discussing ideas. It only got worse as the personal attacks became more outlandish.
From my view in the cheap seats… SBCToday seemed to be sliding into irrelevance for about a year prior to the 2018 SBC meeting. I disagreed with most positions taken there and as a result, I got myself banned. Could I have stated some things differently… probably? But in a traditional SBC sense I was very Baptist in being vocal to the very persons who were present. Not speaking about those absent.
Rick P had his hands full at times with the few there who were not Traditionalists (as they defined it). I saw it become more of a let us take our position and everyone clap but if you disagree, we will be watching for you to err somewhere so we can slap a ban on you.
Being banned is not the end of the world. I have prayed for RP and did so a lot when he left the SBCToday scene. I am glad he is still leading his church. I pray great things happen there and many souls find Christ.
Will I miss them? Nah – been over them for a year or more now.
In the last year, they seemed to have an odd audience that would pile on when the topic was denouncing someone or something. There were anti-CR and anti-institutional church people mixed in with the garden variety anti-Calvinist.
That was unfortunate because some of the soteriology articles were very helpful. I also enjoyed some of the devotionals.
Gamiliel had something to say about this!:)
I enjoyed writing many articles at SBC Today and even a few at SBC Voices. Who knows there could be a Revival of SBC Today (probably not a reformation) in the future.
Seriously, I have spoken with Rick on a couple of occasions in the last year and I believe he is truly repentant over what he did in that terrible moment. I hope you have prayed for him. I hope you have or will forgive him. I have. If you don’t know it by now, we are all one step from stupid at any given moment (especially on the internet).
Thank you William for a great article. It looks like the “mantle” has been laid on your shoulders.
Blessings!
Certainly some valid criticisms here, in William’s article and some of the comments.
Ron, I think you might be a great candidate to oversee a resurrection of the site sometime.
Doug … thanks for your confidence. I enjoying writing more than blogging and watching over a comment thread.
Whoa bro…what mantle? I’ll skewer the rabid Cals when they need skewering. Not sure beyond that.
Rick messed up, owned up to it, and apologized profusely. Wish some others would follow that ethical example.
William,
O.K., I thought I would shake you up a bit with the “mantle” comment. Thanks for your comment about Rick! Blessings!