We may have had this discussion around here, but I think it’s time to crack it open again.
One thing about the Southern Convention of Great Commission Baptists is that, from a denominational perspective, we have no education requirements for our ministers. We have no central standard for ordination, and even our statement of faith is optional for those serving in churches. (I know to be NAMB/IMB/Lifeway you have to agree. Not sure about Guidestone.)
This is the reality, and it’s connected to our belief in local church autonomy. After all, the seminaries and boards exist to serve the needs of the churches, not tell the churches what to do or who can serve. Any church in the Great Commission Convention of Southern Baptists can ordain anyone they see fit–but no other church is required to recognize that ordination. Which is something that we see with deacons, but not all that often with ministers.
The end-result of this situation is that we have some highly educated ministers and some lowly educated ministers. We also have a tremendous opportunity for the self-educated minister to develop and serve with excellence. With that in mind, I want to poll the audience and get some opinions.
First, though, a few observations: I do think learning is best accomplished among other people who are learning and under the guidance of those who have gone before. A major regret for me is that I did not go to seminary early in my time in ministry, sit in a traditional classroom for 4 more years after 4 years of Biblical Studies in college, and put another her diploma on the wall.
I am currently trying to put that diploma on the wall via a non-traditional system that is an internet-based, but still accredited, seminary. So I do see and respect the importance of checking that box on the road to respectability. After all,Timothy was circumcised as an adult to be able to minister in certain contexts. (Acts 16:3) I can stand a few vocal shewas and write papers. Although I have found that blogging has not helped my academic writing abilities.
Here, then, are my questions for you to answer in the comments: (note: The Bible is not the answer to any of these. I assume that none of us would help someone into ministry without starting with the Bible and holding onto it all the way through. I know that the most important text on any Christian subject is Scripture, we’re looking at second-best, here.)
Feel free to just pick one or two, and no, I’m not using you to do my homework.
1. Apart from the Bible, which should be a no-brainer, if you could hand a new minister only one book, what book would you give?
2. What is the best book on preaching you would recommend to a new preacher?
3. What is the best book on building disciples you would recommend?
4. What historical preacher (deceased prior to WWII) would you recommend the new minister to learn about and from?
5. What current preacher would you recommend?
6. What is the best personal devotional text you would recommend for keeping the minister’s own sword sharp?
7. In 50 words or less, what is the advice you would give?
8. What blogs or podcasts would you recommend, if any?
9. Would you encourage the minister to build an e-library or a physical one? Why?
10. What overall theology work would you recommend?
11. What would you recommend for learning history? Would you even bother?
12. Ministerial counseling: what books or resources?
1. I would give them Grasping God’s Word- best overview of hermeneutics in book form I have ever seen. I am indebted to Dr. Tim Pierce for introducing me to this book in seminary. It has kept me from abusing God’s Word on many occasions.
2. I have never read a good one and hope to get some suggestions from this comment stream
3. The Great Omission by Dallas Willard
4. Charles Spurgeon
5. Probably Tim Keller or David Platt. Not to start controversy but they are two of the best I have ever encountered at handling the Word and connecting it to the current day. Matt Chandler and Mark Driscoll would be close runners up (please don’t let this hijack the thread)
6. Devotional Classics- edited by Richard Foster
7. Best advice: Carve out a weekly time to be alone with God for several hours. Don’t do anything during that time for sermon prep. Personal study, prayer, worship, and talking with God only. Guard the time with the fury of a mama bear. Mine is every Saturday morning from about 6:30am-9:30am- on my back porch with my bible, my ipad, my pipe and something to drink.
8. The only blogs I read regularly besides the ones I connect to thru voices are challies.com and theartofmanliness.com Podcasts: Resurgence, Driscoll, Chandler, Erwin McManus, Platt, and Bill Simmons (yes, the ESPN guy)
9. Both- but if you put a gun to my head and made me pick I’d go with physical…I’m too suspicious of the digital library. If the electricity goes out I can light a candle and read, but I can’t power my iPad by hamster wheel.
10. A pastor needs a basic understanding of Orthodoxy, solid training in hermeneutics, an overview of where the Bible came from, how it was put together, and how it is to be read (history, narrative, allegory, etc), and training in the basics of philosophy and critical thinking
11. For history Justo Gonzales’ History of Christianity vol 1&2 should be sufficient- and yes I think you should bother.
Wait, an iPad can’t be powered by hamster wheel?
At last, we’ve found the weakness!
1. Apart from the Bible, which should be a no-brainer, if you could hand a new minister only one book, what book would you give?
Lectures to My Students by Spurgeon- It covers all the bases, right down to reminding you that you should be careful to always pay attention to children!
2. What is the best book on preaching you would recommend to a new preacher?
Preachers and Preaching by Martin Lloyd-Jones-
3. What is the best book on building disciples you would recommend?
Trellis and the Vine
4. What historical preacher (deceased prior to WWII) would you recommend the new minister to learn about and from?
Robert Murray M’Cheyne
5. What current preacher would you recommend?
Phil Johnson is underrated, but he is one of the most excellent out there!
As far as SBC pastors, I like Vodi Baucham, Robert Jeffress, Matt Chandler, David Platt, Paul Washer,
6. What is the best personal devotional text you would recommend for keeping the minister’s own sword sharp?
Open Windows, baby!
8. What blogs or podcasts would you recommend, if any?
Challies.com, Kottke.org (secular),
9. Would you encourage the minister to build an e-library or a physical one? Why?
Both, some books you need physical copies, others you don’t need to lug around paper.
10. What overall theology work would you recommend?
Grudem
I’d like to caveat everything I write here with the fact that I’m young and I’m not involved in fulltime ministry (yet).
**I’ve added links. Amazon gives me a small percentage back for each item purchased through these links.**
1. The Painful Side of Leadership by Jeff Iorg.
2. I haven’t read that many, so I’ll just go with the most recent one: Preach by Mark Dever and Greg Gilbert.
3. Real-Life Discipleship by Jim Putman.
4. John Bunyan. Not to be confused with Paul.
5. Alistair Begg, but only for the accent.
6. The first few verses of 2 Timothy 4. This is Paul’s last known ministerial instructions to his son in the faith.
7. Be ignorant. Too many people think they are experts and knowledgeable about everything. If you recognize that you don’t know much, you’d be surprised at how much you can learn.
8. Practical Shepherding. Then find something that encourages and teaches you.
9. Both. Digital books are great for longer tomes, especially if you’re thinking of going overseas. If you can, buy directly from the publisher without DRM and back it up somewhere. Then you control the file, not a third-party.
10. Probably Grudem’s Systematic Theology.
11. For learning history, general overviews of church history will give you a nice framework, but after that I’d suggest hitting biographies and original works.
Alistair Begg, but only for the accent.
+1
One of the ladies in the church mentioned hearing a great sermon on her iPhone RefNet app, but she couldn’t remember who it was. She started talking about accent, so I asked if it was Alistair Begg.
Nailed it.
“Be ignorant. Too many people think they are experts and knowledgeable about everything. If you recognize that you don’t know much, you’d be surprised at how much you can learn.”
*That*, I believe, is one of the lessons to be drawn from I Cor 8:2. It’s too easy to get hung up on what you already know, and let your pride at that hinder you from learning even more.
I think before you even get to the books, you need to learn that we’re not Great Commission Baptists (unless you know of some Convention somewhere, that I don’t know about).
🙂
Now, Bob, we’re the SCGCB or the GCSCB or something like that. Why choose when we can be both?
🙂
Great questions Doug.
1. Brothers We Are Not Professionals by John Piper
2. Christ-Centered Preaching by Bryan Chapell
3. Trellis and the Vine
4. John Newton
5. John Piper
6. If you mean the Scriptures I’d say the Psalms. If you mean more devotional type of books I would say to read through anything from John Newton. Or maybe a few Paul Tripp books as well.
7. Something similar to “I’m not interested to know if you can set the Thames on fire. What I want to know is this: If I picked you up by the scruff of the neck and dropped you into the Thames, would you sizzle.” Your never less than who you are in Christ nor are you ever more than that. Drink deeply from that fountain.
8. Borrowed Light, duh?!?! But seriously, I would say Challies, those with TGC, SBC Voices (and read widely from the other blogs linked to) Practical Shepherding.
9. If only one I would say physical copies because you can “own” them better. But if you are able to do both there are some copies that are better suited for an e-reader.
10. I might say Grudem’s Systematic Theology but I am also really partial to J.I. Packer’s Knowing God.
11. You had better bother with knowing history, otherwise you’ll end up the next Hitler. I’d suggest a historical overview like Gonzalez and then finding a few of those characters and reading their original works as well as biographies. I make it a habit to always be reading something old and some sort of biography.
There needs to be a twelfth question about resources on counseling. And for that I would suggest being well acquainted with the good folks at CCEF and also knowing Tripp’s Instruments in the Redeemers Hands.
Mike,
I’ve got the Spanish version of Brothers, We are Not Professionals, but I haven’t read it yet. Would you recommend reading it all at once, or taking a chapter here and a chapter there?
I doubt that you can read it all at once. What I mean by that is that some of the chapters are so striking (at least in my own experience) that you will have to put down the book and reorder your life. (I’m only partially kidding).
I’ve read it both ways and found the most benefit in reading it slowly.
I doubt that you can read it all at once.
For a second I thought you were talking about my Spanish skills. I’ve got mad skills, man! 😉
the only Spanish I know is that El Nino is Spanish for The Nino.
You’re right—I had 12 questions in mind, and locked up on the twelth. That’s it: counseling or “ministerial guidance” or whatever the laws of your state require it to be called.
And I added that to the post.
I’m not answering the questions exactly, but back when I was president of the BCI, I wanted to start a program sending 5 books to all the young preachers (and we get a lot of them) who came to pastor in Iowa.
1) The Supremacy of God in Preaching, by Piper. Reminds us that our chief aim in preaching is vertical, not just horizontal.
2) The Heart of the Problem, by Brandt and Skinner. A counselling style based on applying scriptures to situations.
3) Liberating Ministry from the Success Syndrome, Kent Hughes. Defines success in a more biblical way than buildings, budgets, baptisms and other numerical indices.
4) Spiritual Leadership by Henry Blackaby. Approaches leadership not from the business model – how to accomplish your agenda, but from the vantage point of figuring out how to get yourself and your ministry on God’s agenda.
5) I can’t remember the fifth right now, so I’ll come back and edit this comment when I remember it and pretend it was up the whole time. Then Ben Coleman can come along and claim that he has proof I changed it.
Dave, that usage may be where this heads: we’re looking at ways to develop pastoral encouragement in our association, and we’ve got several folks that have been out of seminary for a while and one or two that never went–so gathering and sharpening our tools is one of the goals we have as a group.
And I need to know what the best sharpeners are so we can plan that.
Doug,
I’m not sure if you meet with the local pastors or not but one of the things that we did in Missouri was have a Tuesday morning prayer meeting every week and after we met together we went through one of these ministry type books.
Doing it this way helped those pastors with lesser means (like myself) to only have to purchase a $10 book once every couple months and also to benefit from hearing the reflections of those with differing education and ministerial backgrounds.
We’re trying to get that started. For an old-line state, our county is pretty sparsely populated, with 13 Southern Baptist Churches in our association, which is spread across over 1000 square miles. By North Dakota standards, that’s a lot, but around here, that’s pretty lightweight. Only 6 of our pastors are full-time, so we’re trying to get a schedule going that fits what the bi-vocational guys need.
One thing we want to do is provide tools but do it in a manner that doesn’t say: “Hey, man, you’re a lousy preacher. Here’s a book to get better.” We want to say “Here’s something that all of us might benefit from.”
We’re trying to build a pattern of encouragement and strengthening, because we think that if pastors are encouraged and built up, they’ll build up their church members, which will build up churches, which builds up the rest of our cooperative work.
Sounds like you are doing a great job!
Here in Indiana it’s almost impossible to have the associational strength and unity that I enjoyed in Missouri. We are the southern most church in the association and almost everybody would have to drive over an hour to be able to meet in one place. Sounds like you actually have it worse than that.
I should also mention that the “central location” would probably be a cornfield somewhere. The bigger (better represented) churches in the association seem to be on the polar ends of the association too.
I have to be careful—I pastor the church in the town that’s the central location! I’m happy to host everything, but if we do about 3 events in a row here, someone from the edge fusses about me never having to go anywhere 🙂
So, I typically point out that he’s welcome to host at his place anytime…
Glad I can be of service. 🙂
Doug,
This is not a specific answer to any of your questions, and I risk coming across as self-promoting, since I am presently employed with the Adrian Rogers Pastor Training Institute, and Adrian Rogers was my dad, but I think the best resource I know of to recommend to a non-seminary trained pastor, or prospective pastor, is the “What Every Pastor Ought to Know” DVD course, with 21 hours of practical teaching covering topics such as:
– The pastor’s personal integrity
– The secrets of sermon preparation
– The keys to wise leadership and management
– The balance of pastoral authority and leadership
As a regular contributor here, I am going to take a point of personal privilege, and link to it:
http://www.pastortraining.com/store.html?cat=6&item=22
David,
I will echo your reference. It is outstanding and practical and encouraging… this recourse is exceptional!
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David Rogers,
I also agree.
Anything by Adrian Rogers is well worth listening to, or reading.
David R. Brumbelow
I’ve seen basic info, and it’s not self-promoting since the material is good.
Self-promoting would be me pushing my own book 🙂
1. In addition to the Bible, Spurgeon’s Lectures and All Around Ministry, Broadus Preparation and Delivery of sermons, DML-J Preachers & Preaching, & my thesis for the M.A., “The Baptists & Ministerial Qualifications:1750-1850,” which keeps the illumination aspect/gift as a part of the doctrine of ministerial qualifications in perspective (Morehead State Univ.,Ky.1971).
2. Stott’s Two Worlds (I forget the whole title).
3. Proverbs,
4.George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards (need both to get the complete preacher) John Gano, Shubal Stearns,
5. Roy Hargraves (he grew up just down the road from where I was born, but long after I was gone). He studies, and it is evident. Would recommend our son at Berry’s Grove Baptist Church, Timberlake, NC, google for website, click on sermons.
6. Our Daily Bread. CHS Morning & Evening.
7. Read church minutes, journals, biographies, autobiographies (especially), any and all historical works, friend or foe notwithstanding, theologically favorable or unfavorable (Amazing what you can find in the comments of opponents). Develop a prayer life worthy of the name. And develop your skills for thinking, investigating, understanding, etc. Learn to think outside the box, a prime requisite for all ministers of the Gospel. Remember the scientific method, according to Dr. Alford North Whitehead, developed out Christian theology. I remember one of my professors in Counseling using Daniel Chapter one for example of a one shot scientific method study. Somewhere in one of my notebooks on Lectures in Counseling his words are recorded. Develop and test your own method for investigation of problems, etc. Remember: a method does not have to be hard and fixed; it can be malleable. Eventually, you stumble your way to a method that works in some areas. You enlarge and refine it or leave it, when you encounter areas where it does not work at all. Remember also that the Bible is a book of infinite depth. You should expect profundity of depths there that are to be found nowhere else, depths that will challenge the whole of you, brains and all as C.S. Lewis put it. That perspective turns the Bible into a challenge, the most wonderful work, provoking, provocative, puzzling, perplexing, difficult, and yet able to satisfy, when the solutions begin to emerge, thoughts and therapies that enlarge the servant and healer. I remember using one passage for devotions for years, and was dumbfounded to have it present me with a problem one day when I realized that one of the verses was an epigram…used not many words after an irony (one of the most subtle of all language devices). And then there is the intellectual approach. Not many today are aware of the intellectual approach to interpreting, and I mean ideas when I so speak, the word of God. It took me the better part of 35 years to develop an intellectual approach that honored the Book and made use of the ideas as they were so designed to serve.
8. Any and all with tongue in cheek. You have to have your filters on to refuse the junk and keep the good.
9. Both/And. You never know when the electronic will fail you, and a good solid book in hand is worth all those volumes on a kindle or email, where the electronics have failed for one reason or another. I will admit, I would love to have all my Puritans plus thousands more down loaded to a prepared kindle…just think 12,000-20,000 volumes with indices accordingly. Locate a text, see who all has preached or commented on it, then add in 50,000 more volumes of the best commentaries from the past until now with their comments, location of greek and hebrew words, etc. and sermons on the same text by others as well as contemps. Almost as bad an addiction as I can imagine liquor or drugs to be, though thank God, I don’t have any.
10. Erikson, because I taught his BCD and liked the way he handled subjects theologically. But you need Strong, Thiessen, Finney, Gill, Boyce, Dagg, and a host of others. MY theological collection probably runs to several hundreds of volumes. Only my commentaries and books of sermons exceed.
11. History. Start with books that cite primary sources, and take down what they say. Then take notes on the footnotes. The battle lies there, especially as the footnotes involve primary sources. Learn to distinguish between the secondary and the primary sources. Sometimes the former can become the latter. Sometimes.
12. I took counseling at Liberty at the right time. The approach by Dr. Ron Hawkins and Dr. Tim (his name escapes me now) was that of eclectic psychotherapy which made a great deal of sense to me, seeing as how it advised doing a diagnosis before developing a treatment. In other words, you did not come at any situation with a cut and dried approach. Instead, you investigated, determined what the problem was, then searched the methods in which you had been trained to see what therapies might best apply to a given situation. That kind of approach kind of led to a serendipity situation some years later for me. Our son sent me a lady suffering from trauma. Some years before I had skim read a book on Eye Desensitization Movement (google for the Institute), and something seem to say to me to try it. I did. And the results were, to put it mildly, rather starting. I won’t go into the details here, but it made me aware of the need to be checking for techniques and therapies outside the box, so to speak.
Some authors I’d recommend:
W. A. Criswell (wacriswell.com), Adrian Rogers (lwf.org), Jerry Vines (jerryvines.com), R. L. Sumner (biblicalevangelist.org), Warren Wiersbe, H. A. Ironside, Paige Patterson, David Allen, B. H. Carroll, L. R. Scarborough, David Jeremiah, J. Vernon McGee, John Phillips, Josh McDowell, Norman Geisler, R. G. Lee.
Commentaries: Any by the above authors, New American Commentary, Warren Wiersbe’s Bible Exposition Commentary, J. Vernon McGee’s Thru the Bible Commentary.
History: Robert A. Baker, William Estep, Albert Newman.
Pastoral: Hobbs Minister’s Manual, Criswell’s Guide for Pastors, Guide to Practical Pastoring by Sumner Wemp, Lectures to My Students by C. H. Spurgeon.
Illustrations: Buy every illustration book you can get. You can outline a Scripture and build a sermon on your own, but good illustrations can be hard to come by. Illustrations make a sermon more interesting and memorable.
Biographies of great preachers and missionaries; Baptist Classics Series by B&H.
Counseling: any books by James Dobson and Focus on the Family, Clyde Narramore.
Study Bibles: Criswell Study Bible (aka Believer’s Study Bible, Baptist Study Edition), Scofield Reference Bible (various editions), Ryrie Study Bible.
Periodicals: your State SBC Paper, WORLD magazine (worldmag.com), Biblical Evangelist (biblicalevangelist.org).
Articles archived at Baptist Press (bpnews.net) can provide a great resource.
David R. Brumbelow
Doug Hibbard,
If you are going to be a dyed-in-the wool Southern Baptist pastor, I suggest you take David R. Brumbelow’s book suggestions very seriously and read them all.
If you are going be a personally secure and confident Southern Baptist pastor, I suggest you take Dave Miller’s advice and read Liberating Ministry from the Success Syndrome by Kent Hughes.
If you are going to survive business meetings and deacon meetings and ambush meetings as a Southern Baptist pastor, I suggest you take cb’s advice and read The Art of War by Sun Tzu.
Haven’t read all of Brumbelow’s suggestions, but have read a few.
Have read Liberating Ministry from the Success Syndrome and some of Dave’s suggestions.
And I have read Sun Tzu, but not in the original language 🙂
The main thing I’m really going to try and grab from all this is a book or two on preaching. I’ve read a few, but not many. Might need to get better at that.
Doug Hibbard,
If you are about to spend pastor’s salary money on books, I shall take a rare turn here and be serious for a moment and make three suggestions of books related to preaching that, in my opinion, will give you an adequate “bang for your buck.”
* The Art and Craft of Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson and Craig Larson.
* The 12 Essential Skills For Great Preaching by Wayne McDill.
* The Preparation and Delivery of Sermons by John A. Broadus.
The Broadus book is old and dated, but it is still a worthy book to read by guys who are serious about preaching. Not every thing that is old is bad. Yet, if you only buy two, buy the first two. McDill greatly capitalized from the work of Broadus and that in and of itself makes his book worth the purchase.
CB: I taught Dr. McDill’s 12 Essential Skills for Great Preaching in a seminary extension class back sometime between 2002-2004. I thoroughly enjoyed doing so. My collection of works on preaching probably amount to nearly 200 volumes. Our son studied Dr. McDill’s work under Dr. McDill himself…and introduced me to him (this was before I taught his work which added to my appreciation for the work and the professor). I have several works by Haddon Robinson and heard him speak at SEBTS, I think, by invitation of our son, when he was student there from ’95-99/ When were you there, CB?
Good stuff so far, and thank you to Mike Leake for making sure to jump to Hitler before the comment stream got past 25 comments.
There’s one in every crowd.
A “Hitler” in every crowd?
I just figure it’s never too early to just get to the point. Hitler was a non-Calvinist you know. LOL.
Oh, wow. this could get ugly.
Godwin’s law pops up here, too, apparently.
Hitler is a great proof of total depravity gone ape. His concentration camps, one in particular, gave me nightmares. A member of my second church had taken pictures of a smaller one with an old Browning Box camera, and he gave me his pictures to take home and study one night. Never again. Nightmares…..Horrors! I had nightmares, when I read what the inquisitors did to the Waldensians as well as the army that invaded their valleys. I also had nightmares when I read some of the original sources on slavery, while teaching at South Carolina State College, ’70-’72. By the way, John Milton wrote a poem to the Waldensians…
Great and helpful article. I also appreciate that you addressed the reality of the self educated pastor. Seminary is not a viable option for everyone and it is certainly not a biblical requirement.
1.) Knowing God by J.I. Packer
2.) Preaching that Changes Lives by Mike Fabarez
3.) What Every Christian Ought To Know by Adrian Rogers
4.) Charles Spurgeon
5.) Too many to name: Albert Mohler, Mark Denver, Adam Dooley, Jerry Vines
6.) Table talk – the devotional R.C. Sproul’s group puts out.
7.) Don’t just study your Bible looking for sermons and lessons but for personal growth first. Preach expository messages as your primary method. Never ever forget that although the bible is inspired your opinions are not.
8.) Al Mohler’s blog,
9.) I personally recommend an e-library, for ease of access, you can carry it with you everywhere in a tablet or laptop, it doesn’t take up space. Many of the old books are now in internet form.
I have Packer’s Knowing God right here on the computer table with the computer. I have a work or two by Adrian Rogers and one by his wife. Spurgeon, I all of his NPSP & MTP, Treasury of David, and many other works. I also have Packer’s Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, Sproul’s Knowing Scripture…and some other items.
Here are my thoughts on your questions: It may be good to note my situation so that context will help know where I’m coming from… I have no formal education past High School, I’ve been in ministry for 25 years, I grew up in the west, and I pastor in the west (at current church for 11 years)
1. I would recommend (and do give) “Brothers, We Are Not Professionals” John Piper
2. This is not a book on preaching, but Joseph Alleine’s book “Alarm to the Unconverted” has influenced my preaching more than any other.
3. John Bunyan, “The Holy War”
4. George Mueller
5. Rick Ferguson (deceased, but current enough to consider)
6. Anything by A.W. Tozer
7. Read!
8. Voddie Baucham
9. Build both if you can. If only one, build an e-library… it’s cheaper, and many of the old books are free.
10. John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon
11. Read as much history as you can
12. This is a slippery slope to get lost on. In my opinion (ugggghhhh) re-read… Alarm to the Unconverted.
> John Bunyan, “The Holy War”
I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who has read this (though I’ll admit that what I’ve read is Ethel Barrett’s re-telling of it).
Ethel Barrett’s reading of the “War for Mansoul” is priceless.
Our son got me a set of the complete works of Bunyan about 20 years ago. He stands to inherit it, when I slip the mortal coil. By the way you can download all 22 volumes of the old Puritan Thomas Manton. Wow! Along with Sibbes, Clarkson, Bridges, Burroughs, etc. Just google Puritan works online. One of the sites has a slew of them on line.