1. Big Ten, Pac 12 football. Does anyone require an explanation?
2. Alliterative sermon outlines. Forgive my fervent yet forlorn and perhaps foolish foray into the subject. Adrian could make it work but no one since.
3. The silly idea that only megapastors can be SBC presidents. God, give us a faithful pastor of a sub-megachurch as president…before I die.
4. Any pastor who asks, “Are you tracking with me?” I’m tracking the talking, preaching cliche of a pastor who uses the phrase.
5. The evaluation of everything in the SBC on the basis of Calvinism. Why would any noncal describe his theology as 3.5 point, or whatever point Calvinist?
6. Any state convention entity that is generations old but still consumes cooperative program dollars. If they aren’t compelling enough to make it on their own, are we subsidizing mediocrity, or worse?
7. The artificial scarcity of white fudge Oreo cookies. If they fly off the shelves make more. I can’t find a single box now that I ate the box Santa brought me.
______
There are more. Happy New Year.
Would you mind saying more about number 6? Or pointing me somewhere to read further? I want to make sure I’m tracking with you… 🙂
Ronnie Floyd made a similar statement in his blogging while SBC president. You could look at many state sponsored educational institutions along these lines as well as other traditional state sponsored ministries. It’s a broad subject that varies by state. Some of the entities have powerful constituencies making changes and cuts difficult.
Of course, churches can and have adjusted their giving patterns rather than fight the entrenched system.
I am so… tracking with you. Especially point #7. And while they’re at it, put more in the box!!!
Please, oh please can we leave behind That Ohio State University?
Clemson certainly left them behind!
Lets be fair to Washington. They got beat by the best D’s in the NCAA and one of the brightest up-and-coming RB’s in the NCAA. And they did at least win their conference championship. So despite being outmatched, they did at least deserve the chance….Ohio State on the other hand….Yea…The Big 10 should rename themselves by dropping the 1.
As to: 1. Agree. But we in the South do need to be gracious in our prophetic announcements – as much as we can. 2. Gave them up years ago. I preach about twice a year. If I ever find myself constructing an outline that naturally goes in that direction, I find another word just to break it up. There are a lot of things Adrian could do that we should not try to copy. 3. Agree. Will somebody run? But note, to win they must have some ability to appeal to the younger generation, and they cannot present themselves… Read more »
I support the CP but believe that state conventions, particularly the handful of legacy ones that consume most of the CP, are almost helplessly locked into considerable spending that has limited value to their constituent churches.
I hear a lot of preachers who use the word “gospel” a lot, too much. We used to preach about Jesus; now the emphasis is on “the gospel.” I thought the focus of the gospel was Jesus Christ. Perhaps someone can explain this to me.
I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. And possibly a false dichotomy.
Tyler:
That’s not a very Gospel centered answer.
Mark…maybe use the word “gospel” more, and explain it accurately. That would be preaching Jesus. 🙂
1: If all football disappeared tomorrow I don’t think I’d notice. 2: I haven’t heard one of these in years. More popular down south? 3: Heartily agree. 4: Never hear this. 5: Agreed but unhopeful. Anyone who denies being a Calvinist is, I think, suspected of being untruthful, so the interrogation will continue until it is determined just how calvinistic they are. Hopefully this is most common in blogdom. I don’t know if churches are employing the various “how to sniff out a Calvinist” methodologies. On the other hand, if you are a Calvinist, say so. 6: Don’t know anything… Read more »
William, Love the post! Especially “point” number 5 (good positioning! :)) I completely agree that noncal’s should drop the comparison,..it doesn’t help their case against the Synod’s reaffirmation of 1619. It may be better to make a comparison for or against the Arminians since they were the original aggressor (like “4 point Arminian”, or something like that”). It is those 7 point Calvinist’s you have to watch! The Calvinism thing…enough already! So many more important things to discuss!
Well said! Now that you mention the Oreos….why is egg nogg only available during the Christmas season?
Because you’d die if you drank it year round.
Why is it available at all?
William, you must be a disciple of SEBTS President Danny Akin who described the state conventions as, “bloated and inefficient bureaucracies with red tape a mile long,” and his SEBTS staff member who accused the state conventions of “skimming” CP dollars that rightfully belong to the SBC. I thought that seemed strange language from a man who is president of a seminary whose bureaucracy used CP funds to gift an almost new car to a professor leaving for another seminary as CB Scott once discovered. I think you and Danny have it backwards when you say, “they (the state conventions)… Read more »
I do agree with Akin but might be more diplomatic than using the phrase “bloated bureaucracies.” I’ve never even implied that the SCs are skimming. All entities waste money. Please note that I did not say that SCs aren’t compelling enough to make it on their own. My point was that some SC supported entities have been around for generations and ought to have enough support to not line up for CP dollars forever. I will say that the legacy state conventions that consume hundreds of millions in CP dollars have a very difficult time making a compelling case for… Read more »
Except that, tied to those CP dollars for generations there is a string: no fundraising or direct appeals without approval from the State Convention. At least, that’s the rule in Arkansas. OBU and Williams, for example, have to have all direct appeals to churches approved by the ABSC. Likewise if Siloam Springs (Camp) wants to. As a result, they have existed for years on the CP payout. To cut these off at the knees because “they aren’t compelling enough to stand on their own” ignores the basic fact that they haven’t built a plan to ask for funds in competition… Read more »
Just speaking for myself, I use the word gospel and Christ interchangeably. Sometimes I catch myself and explain that I mean the same thing. Maybe I’m wrong. Who knows.
I’m sure we will William, I will aim for fruitful.
William, Your post is: Big Ten, Pac 12 football. Does anyone require an explanation? 2. Alliterative sermon outlines. Forgive my fervent yet forlorn and perhaps foolish foray into the subject. Adrian could make it work but no one since. 3. The silly idea that only megapastors can be SBC presidents. God, give us a faithful pastor of a sub-megachurch as president…before I die. 4. Any pastor who asks, “Are you tracking with me?” I’m tracking the talking, preaching cliche of a pastor who uses the phrase. 5. The evaluation of everything in the SBC on the basis of Calvinism. Why… Read more »
6. Any state convention entity that is generations old but still consumes cooperative program dollars. If they aren’t compelling enough to make it on their own, are we subsidizing mediocrity, or worse? I used to be fairly negative toward state conventions and wanted all of the money to go to the mission field. But, over the past few years, I’ve recognized that the problem often is not “how much” money is spent in states, but “how” the money is spent. For example, you see Southern states that are reducing their share of CP monies that they receive and are then… Read more »
I always appreciate the thoughtful comments you make, Allen. There’s far too much to address here. Perhaps a separate article on SCs would be helpful. But I’ll say that in regard to SC supported entities some have developed sufficient support. Some have been propped up when the better course might be death or merger. One thing I’ve never seen is any measure by which churches can evaluate success on the state level. We have numbers: student count, conference attendees, etc. My view has been that SCs, at about 61 or so percent of the CP dollar are overfunded and underperform.… Read more »
I would take a “You tracking with me?” over a “Can I get an amen?” any day. 😉
Me too!
But they’re both annoying.
How about those annoying ones:
“y’all just missed a good place for an amen”
Or
“That ought to make a Presbyterian shout!”
Willliam you say, “legacy state conventions that consume hundreds of millions in CP dollars have a very difficult time making a compelling case for the amount of money they spend considering the results we see.” I don’t know your situation in Georgia but in Arkansas our convention has made a very compelling case for the amount of money we spend and our churches reward that with trust and voting to approve the budget that is presented to us for our approval. They present their results every year at our state convention. State convention expenses are just as much cooperative program… Read more »
Ron, what’s the trend for CP percentages in your state?
When a state convention is spending more that 10% of a 30+ million dollar budget on the state printed newspaper but can’t muster more than 40% to the SBC – then i think it’s fair to say the budget is askew.
I would like to know what state convention is spending 10% of its budget on the state printed paper.
Tarheel, I’m guessing your figures are off, I can’t imagine any state paper receiving 10% of a SC budget. I’m normally pretty strong on cutting state expenses to get more to the IMB, but there are legitimate and important SC ministries that need to be funded. State papers may be a good illustrative point. There was a time when (almost?) all state conventions published their own newspaper. Those days are gone, and rightly so. We don’t need 20+ state newspapers – that’s the kind of duplication we often complain about. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t room now for a… Read more »
William, this year we send 43.77% to the SBC Executive Committee. We voted to increase almost 1/2 % a year for the next 5 years which will put us close to 46%. Each state entity agreed to reduce their state convention budget receipts in order to do this.
Tarheel, our state paper only receives 1.3% of our state budget. Are you saying in NC your state paper gets 3 million dollars or 10% of your state budget??? Do you have a daily paper?
It’s not daily but it comes a lot.
I’ve got the book of reports in my office – I’ll share specifics tommorow.
Perhaps some truth should be injected into this conversation. North Carolina Baptists’ newspaper, the Biblical Recorder, is published every two weeks and new material is posted online throughout the week and some on weekends. The state convention allots 1.36% of its 2017 budget to the Recorder with additional funds to provide annual subscriptions to “new Baptists” — that is, those who join any Baptist Church in the state are given a one year subscription by the state convention.
Thanks for weighing in, Allan. I was thinking that it probably came weekly, as it does in Alabama. Baptist papers are important and the Biblical Recorder is one of the best papers that Southern Baptists have. Thankful for the ministry and journalism of the BR.
Allan Blume, Brent Hobbs, and others; Just got to the office today – meetings and funerals kept me out till now. I said I would look back and get the specifics to you so here it goes. First off, Allan Blume who is the editor of the NC Baptist State paper (Biblical Recorder) has weighed in and is correct in his statement above that the BR is around 1.5 or so of the overall state CP budget. (As he indicated the allotment is 1.36% and then there is a “special project” line item that is added to that) Perhaps this… Read more »
Sorry, I meant average church CP giving.
I want to hear these preaching phrases go away:
1) “Bless the gift and the giver”
2) “And God’s people said” which is supposed to be followed by a group “amen”
3) “If that special didn’t light your fire, your woods wet”
4) Purposely mispronouncing a celebrity name or movie title to make it look like your only vaguely acquainted with it.
5) Go-o-od .
Lol!
Hey Scott – Basically let’s ban (as if we had the power) all cheerleader phrases used in preaching!
It’s rude IMO to basically tell (shame) people into cheering for you –
Besides, we ain’t cheerleaders!!
Sadly, I’ve seen more than one preacher actually leave the platform area – go sit down on the front row point at the podium and say “amen preacher”…. and then follow that up with something like “if you won’t do it I will do it myself”.
Ridiculous.
I’m seeing more of a certain response in worship where periodic clapping, whistling, and exclamations (wow!, etc.) are sought by the preacher who includes a string of applause lines.
Seems artificial. Frankly, I hate it.
Alan is exactly right–there is terrific competition for Cooperative Program dollars. Sixty years ago the average church gave 12% to the Cooperative Program. The most recent figure I saw was 5.6%, or less than half. Perhaps we should discuss the reasons for the decline; however, for sure there is great competition for the CP dollars. In the past the SBC and the state conventions had enough money for everything, but that is no longer the case. This dilemma forces us to make difficult, painful decisions–on every level of Baptist life. If you have fewer dollars, then determining priorities becomes more… Read more »
Yes on #2. I used to do the alliteration thing thinking it was clever and somehow proved I was the only one who could do it. Then I discovered practically everyone around me was doing it. Now it just seems forced and tired. Plus, it took forever to get that 3rd or 4th point to jive and I wasted a great deal of time.
William, my unofficial numbers from looking at the annual reports show Arkansas churches were still averaging about 9% of undesignated receipts to the CP 15 or 20 years ago. The last couple of years it is around 7%. As Mark Terry said, back when he and I were appointed to the FMB/IMB the average was above 10%. Mark is also right about our state executive director. Sonny Tucker is a good guy and a friend. I have discussed many of these issues with him and he is a strong supporter of SBC missions as well as our state missions and… Read more »