On the nearly interminable red-eye flight from Dakar, Senegal to Dulles yesterday, I watched the movie Invictus to pass the time. It is the story of Nelson Mandela, the Springbok Rugby team of South Africa, and the 1995 Rugby World Cup. After the end of apartheid in South Africa in 1990, Mandela was released from prison and then elected president in 1994. While there has been much debate about Mandela’s activities prior to his arrest and imprisonment, his tenure as president of the country was remarkable.
While attending a rugby match against England, he realized that the black South Africans in the stands were cheering for England against their own national team, the Springboks. Some time later, the South African Sports Committee, now dominated by the once excluded blacks, was ready to do away with the Springbok name completely in preparation for the 1995 World Cup to be held in 1995 in South Africa, a significant event since no significant sporting events were held in Africa during the apartheid era. Mandela went before the committee and influenced them to keep the Springbok name. The nation needed reconciliation, not revenge and retribution, he said. Instead of settling old scores, South Africans needed to overcome anger, suspicion and animosity to build a unified future. The committee narrowly agreed with him and, of course, the Springboks went on to inspire the country and to win a very surprising championship against the All Blacks of New Zealand – one of the great upsets and inspiring moments of sports history.
It happened because a leader chose reconciliation over retribution. Had Mandela gone along with the Sports Committee he would have been completely justified, knowing what had been done to him. Not only had he been imprisoned for 27 years at hard labor, but the blacks of South Africa had been brutalized and excluded in horrific ways – and this only ended 25 years ago! For them to exact a little revenge by doing away with the symbol of South African white pride, the Springboks, would have been justified. Honestly, who of us could have blamed him?
But he looked beyond pettiness, beyond settling scores and retribution, and he brought a nation together. He looked beyond pride and personal grievance to what would build a better South Africa, a stronger nation. Whatever you think of Nelson Mandela in his early years, South Africa is better off today because they had a leader who sought reconciliation over retribution after apartheid crumbled.
Leadership in the SBC
Being a leader in the SBC today is not something for the timid at heart or those who struggle with personal insecurity. No matter what decision a Russell Moore makes, someone isn’t going to like it. Pretty much anything LifeWay stocks is going to offend someone. You simply can’t please everyone.
And, frankly, there is an industry of criticism in the SBC. It existed before blogging, but our little pastime and other forms of social media have given voice to those who have little constructive to add, but only wish to tear down. Whether it is on the right or the left, from Geneva or one of the many organizations that have formed to oppose Calvinism, whether it is from traditionalism or those committed to extreme cultural relevance, someone is going to dislike pretty much everything our leaders do.
It has to get old being excoriated for everything you do and having every decision you make questioned, analyzed and second-guessed. And it is easy to snap back on the culture of criticism by treating all criticism as invalid, unwarranted and even ungodly.
There is a fine balance we must all find. I have to find it at my little old Iowa church and Thom Rainer has to find it at LifeWay.
On the one hand, I must not let perpetual, foul-spirited, flesh-driven, angry critics run my life or deter me from the work God has called me to do. On the other hand, I must not become immune to criticism or anathematize those who disagree with or criticize me.
We need leaders in the SBC with the intestinal fortitude not to let the angry voices drive them or discourage them and not to be bullied by the social media terrorists or their campaigns of mass destruction. But we need leaders who are humble, who listen when Southern Baptists are upset, who are willing to hear criticisms.
We need leaders who actively, humbly and intentionally seek reconciliation with those who criticize them. We need Romans 12:18 leadership.
If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
There are times when you simply can’t live at peace with everyone. There are people out there who don’t want peace, who love the smell of battle. I don’t understand it, but there are people who aren’t happy unless they are questioning the faith of another Christian or anathematizing someone. There’s not much you can do about people like that. There are times when the mute and block buttons are your only solution. But we cannot easily come to that solution. We cannot write our critics off as crazies too easily, before we have legitimately attempted to seek reconciliation with them.
In the SBC we have to learn to give and receive criticism in a godly way. We often fail both in the way we give it and in the way we receive it. Here are a few observations on the topic.
Observations
I wish I had some easy rubric to share on how to know when enough is enough, when it’s okay to write someone off. I know this – I have friends today who once were enemies. In the Kingdom, reconciliation works. The Spirit of God is actively working among believers to produce love and joy and peace and so when we pursue those things, the Spirit is our ally and our supply. Christians default to reconciliation and restoration, not isolation and derogation. Here are some thoughts that have been rattling around my brain.
1) Even God receives criticism.
Job said some harsh things about God. So did Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Habakkuk and other prophets. When these prophets didn’t understand the workings of God, they called out to God and questioned him; sometimes harshly. They wondered about his actions, his justice, his goodness.
And God did not blast a single one of them to perdition!
He answered them. He restored them. He was direct and honest with them, but he was also compassionate. He told Job that he was the sovereign God of heaven and that he would have to trust him because he couldn’t possibly understand all that he was trying to do. He called Jeremiah to serve him even if everyone hated him while he did it. He told Habakkuk that though injustice reigned in Israel, he had a plan to punish it and handle things.
The point is that if the sovereign God of heaven can take criticism from those he created, you and me can probably be humble and take a little criticism from those we lead. I am not more righteous than God. God heard those who questioned his decisions and actions and responded. I certainly ought to do the same.
Simply put, no pastor or leader is above question. No entity head or ministry leader is too wise or too high or too mighty to be criticized. It is an arrogant fool who acts as if he is above criticism.
2) It is every Southern Baptist’s right to criticize our leaders, and every Southern Baptist leader’s responsibility to listen.
We are a convention of churches, not of entities. In our polity, the entities should reflect and support the churches.
I once made a smart-aleck comment (surprised, right?) to the executive director of my state convention and someone chastised me for being disrespectful to my boss. The exec knew I was kidding and I don’t think he was offended, but the concern should have been that someone in a Southern Baptist church actually thought that the state’s executive director held authority over the pastor of a local church. The entities are autonomous like our churches, but they exist to serve the kingdom and to serve the churches of the convention.
And so, every leader in a convention entity needs to be willing to listen to opinions of Southern Baptists, even if they disagree with their own. Obviously. there are limits to this.
No leader can do his job and listen to everyone. There are not enough hours in the day. Frank Page has a lot of important work to do. None of us wants him to spend his day answering every emailed opinion that comes his way. Same for Dr. Moore, Thom Rainer, the presidents of our seminaries, or any of our other key leaders. But they need to actively take time to listen to Southern Baptist opinion.
- I have yet to agree with a single one of Randy White’s opinions about Dr. Russell Moore’s actions as president of the ERLC. Not a single one. I’ve been on Dr. Moore’s side every time. But Randy White has every right to voice his opinions. More than that, I hope that Dr. Moore (or, more likely, his staff) will listen to criticisms like that and realize that they represent a significant constituency in the SBC. I don’t have to agree with Dr. White’s positions to defend his right to speak those positions.
- I am a big fan of Dr. Thom Rainer and I think his blog is one of the must-reads for Southern Baptist pastors. Lifeway has been the target of a lot of the attacks from those obsessed with destroying other Christians. It would be easy to write off all their criticisms. The fact is that there are a lot of Baptists out there who wish that LifeWay wouldn’t sell the Shack, TD Jakes books, and other materials. I can both love and respect Thom Rainer and disagree with some of LifeWay’s material selections.
- I can both love Dr. Rainer and disagree with him. I can have a tremendous amount of respect for Ed Stetzer and sometimes disagree with what he writes. I can think Dr. Russell Moore is a gift from God to the SBC and still not agree with everything he says. It’s not either/or. It’s not 100% or 0%. There’s none of us who is perfect – including all of the leaders of our entities. They have all done good things, and every one of them will do something that we disagree with at times.
We need to be able to speak criticism without condemnation. Our leaders need to be willing to listen to criticism without feeling condemnation. Sometimes we need to change the tone and tenor of our criticism. At other times, perhaps, our leaders need to change how they hear. But Southern Baptists are a bottom-up denomination and the opinions and critiques of members of Southern Baptist churches must not be summarily dismissed.
3) It may surprise you that well-spoken, clearly articulated and reasonably argued criticisms ARE heard by our leaders.
Last year, the Executive Committee came out with a proposal concerning conformity to the Baptist Faith & Message. They announced the proposal and they actually invited people to respond. People did. They gave opinions – several here. And lo and behold, the Executive Committee listened and developed a new plan that accomplished the goals that they wanted to accomplish without creating any of the issues they were worried about. Something that was shaping up as a nasty convention floor fight turned out to be nothing – because THEY LISTENED!
They actually set up an email and invited response.
Let me share something I was told by a key leader of a convention entity. If any member of a Southern Baptist church sends a letter or an email to that entity to speak to a particular issue, that letter is distributed to the trustees (or perhaps the appropriate trustee committee) and that opinion is taken into account. If you write an angry rant, filled with wild accusations and threats, that will likely be discounted. If you write a letter as long as the kind of posts Bart and I write, it might get lost in the shuffle. But a concise, well-written opinion on a topic of convention business can make a difference.
Entity heads don’t have time to peruse blogs. You can rant and rave on blogs all day and little will be accomplished – battle blogging is largely ineffective in changing the SBC. Twitter bullying and name-calling, battle blogging and such are not likely to influence anyone. But when Southern Baptists express reasonable, biblical, cogent opinions, they will be heard.
4) Just because they don’t agree doesn’t mean you haven’t been heard.
It has to be said. Just because they don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they haven’t heard you. Maybe they have information you don’t have. Maybe they just simply disagree with you. Maybe there are other forces at work that you don’t know about. But too many times people assume that if they don’t get their way they haven’t had their say. Not so. Maybe (gasp!) your logic isn’t as compelling as you believe it to be. Maybe they heard you, looked at all the facts, heard all the perspectives, and believed that you were simply wrong. Or at least that you weren’t right enough to change courses.
I hate secret ballots. If you are a man or woman of conviction, you don’t need to hide behind secrecy to vote your conscience. Hold your hand in the air and speak your mind. I tried to get a “no ballot votes” provision in our church constitution in my last church, but it failed miserably. I brought it up at my current church one time, and a friend grinned and said, “I call for a ballot vote if we bring it to a vote.”
To me, the logic seems unassailably clear. Secret ballots serve no purpose in the local church except to allow people to be cowards. But to this point, I’ve been unable to convince two congregations of this. Oh well. Should I rant and storm until they bow to my opinion? Or just move on to other things? Does the fact that the church refuses to bow to my opinion mean that they didn’t hear me or respect me? Maybe it’s okay to just disagree? (For the record, ballots at the SBC are useful for counting close votes – in a megachurch they might serve that same purpose.)
Someone can listen to your opinion, give it a full hearing, and simply disagree. You’ve been heard, even if you haven’t been agree with.
5) Godly leaders seek reconciliation.
Jesus is Lord of all and he devoted his life to seeking reconciliation with sinners. In a church, the pastor is God’s chief agent of reconciliation. It is every Christian’s duty to be an agent of reconciliation in the Body of Christ, but the pastor and other leaders of the church carry the burden of being God’s agents of unity and reconciliation. We must endure scorn, criticism, anger, insult and all of these in the name of building up the body. When you sign on as a pastor, you are agreeing to swallow your pride to build up others, to be slow to anger, quick to forgive and first to seek restoration and reconciliation.
Within the boundaries of the possible, SBC leaders ought to be men of peace and of reconciliation. They ought to be willing to hear their critics, even to give them a serious ear. I can’t imagine what men our entity heads go through. But when they accept the job to lead us and to lead our schools and agencies, they accept the burden to be men of humility and agents of reconciliation and unity, as much as is in them. As Christ gave himself to seek reconciliation with us, leaders give themselves to seek reconciliation with those God gives them to lead.
Each of us has the responsibility before God to guard our tongues, to speak the truth with grace and to avoid the kind of derogation that has become so common today, even among Christians. Leaders have a special responsibility to be Christlike agents of reconciliation, even with those who disagree with them and their ideas, and even those who criticize them. Somehow, we need to create an environment where civil discussion, debate and even disagreement can take place – among Calvinists and nons, traditionalists and relevants, megas and smaller churches, whatever our divisions are. We need to be respectful in how we criticize and humble in how we receive criticism.
Having said that, I’m glad I’m not the leader of one of the ERLC, LifeWay or one of our seminaries!
A **little** leaven leavens the **whole** loaf.
And ever Christian is entitled to his own leaven.
Surely.
Oops.
EVERY Christian.
A little letter changes the whole meaning.
While I do not necessarily agree with their methods, JD Hall and company are exactly right in what they are saying when it comes to some of the garbage sold at Lifeway. I imagine that 90% or more Southern Baptists messengers would agree that this (http://www.lifeway.com/Product/the-shack-paperback-P005139188) should not be. Thom Rainer and Lifeway should give us a reason why such heresy is on the shelves at Lifeway. Maybe there is a logical explanation.
I think that explanations have been given. They have not been satisfying to many, but it is not as if no explanation has ever been given.
What, Rev. Miller, do you have to say on these alleged explanations? Now that you have put it on the table, do you not think you need to go beyond, “I don’t agree with them 100% but…”? At what point would you consider anything at Lifeway to be heretical? At what point would you say the material and its purveyors have crossed a line? “You can never please all of the people all of the time” is a very old merry-go round. Where in your thinking on this subject is an interrogation of Lifeway, it’s leadership and its inventory on the basis of Scripture, on the basis of CASES, of actual, “boots on the ground” books with pages and authors and statements purporting to reveal the mind of Christ? I’ll have to read again, to be fair, but where in your analysis is reference to what the Head of the Church might be thinking on this matter? We need more than an assurance that the men in charge are well-intentioned Angels with whom you disagree from time to time but…
Where, Dr. Miller, is your dividing line?
We know you are with the LifeWay Angels and look with disdain on the Angry Calvinists, who are just restless punks cruising the alley, and for whom any bruisin’ will do. But is truth at stake here?
Are you willing to go there? Where, other than from whiners who criticize your Angels, are you going to draw the dividing line?
I think Dr. Rainer is one of the best men in the SBC, with some of the best practical advice any blog offers. I respect him a lot.
My personal opinion about “The Shack” is that it’s an awful book. My opinions of the book are published.
http://sbcimpact.org/2009/05/14/christian-fiction-and-the-theology-of-the-shack/
http://sbcimpact.org/2009/05/16/my-theological-problems-with-the-shack/
But, whether I’m a fan of “The Shack” or not, I remain a huge fan of Dr. Thom Rainer. He’s one of the good guys and his work at LifeWay has been stellar.
So, if I were a D.Min Candidate under Dr. Ed, or somewhere in the SBC higher education system, that would suffice to defend my thesis?
Is this the level of thinking that is expected from the highest level of leadership in the SBC? From our pastors and teachers?
This is what the laity should turn their wallets upside down to support?
This is an absolutely astonishing statement from a man in your position and with your responsibilities!
Is this what the sheep can/should expect from their shepherds?
Oh, My! Dr. Miller.
Why all the sarcasm?
Why not try reasoned, godly discussion?
I don’t know why people feel that such tactics serve any godly purpose. They do not. They are of the flesh, not of the spirit. They are shameful and sinful.
I am assuming that you are a Christian, Charles. If Jesus Christ has saved you from your sin, you can do better than this.
Dave, I am no Rainer basher. I like Thom Rainer. I read his blog often. If an explanation has been given concerning The Shack, I would like to know where I can find that explanation.
Yea, I am really not a fan of some of these guys on twitter, but I really don’t get some of the stuff Lifeway sells.
Great post, Dave. I hope it will be widely read.
Dave,
Great post! Welcome home!
I figure it’s probably wise for a leader to have a close handful of men to help maintain perspective and discern the validity of inevitable criticism (in spite of the nature any of the criticism was delivered), whether the criticism is best dismissed or best taken to heart in some way.
Well put…but then you are a reasonable, thoughtful guy.
As long as LW sells books, folks will complain. I haven’t been in a store for several years now and don’t really care. I’d guess that LW tries to be sensible about thibgs but recognizes that every SBCer has his or her own list of books to ban…alas.
I think Moore and ELRC could do much better responding to critics. IMB trustee board still comes across at times like Augusta National where those who are in the club act in secret while those who pay the bills are expected to let the clubbers think, decide, and act. NAMB leaders will answer questions. You can handle the seminaries.
Adrian prophesied about the “tire slashers.” They’re still around.
Hope you guys had a great trip.
William, that kind of crossed my mind as well. A handful of books out of thousands should not really be too alarming, but the response from the leadership should be very seasoned to get the best desired effect.
I would like to see Lifeway set the standard higher, if possible, and be seen as the collective leader in theologically sound literature. That would benefit all concerned, and increase patronage.
Print on paper bookstores are OE dinosaurs and I’d bet LW is more likely to drop that segment than to try and upgrade that business segment to satisfy critics. That said, if they are to sell books, they can hardly filter their stock through every SBC mullah’s sieve.
very true….
Well, I like your comment David, even I did not agree with it 100%. Great way to begin a response, huh? One of our great problems is what is called Group Think; it develops when those who are supposed to provide true feedback supply only what they think a leader will be heard. Basically, I have studied and looked at and mulled over the present situation, and I have come to the conclusion that it is pretty much the same old, same old. In other words, the leaders are falling prey to the bottle feeding of those who will not give honest opinions and debate some of the actions, programs, etc. That leaves the tare hairs to do body slams which make everyone upset. One really needs to read his or her worst critics, especially the mean and hateful ones. Leadership involves thinking and reflecting outside the box. Your references to the biblical personalities who criticized God are a little to soft. Jeremiah, for example, accused God of being false to him, pretty bizarre behavior on the prophet’s part. However, God has broad shoulders. He can take anything we can dish out; He also can deal with it as He sees fit. Part of our problem is that we have a Book inspired by Omniscience, and we have not considered that fact in our evaluations of what it says. In other words, the writing must reflect wisdom, etc., commensurate with such a source. Our problem is that we like “yes” people to reflect our own feelings back to us. Hardly, a guarantee for objectivity and reality!. It is a recipe for disaster. While unity is like the ointment that flowed down the garments of Aaron the High Priest, there is also need the yammering of disagreement, arguments, contentions, etc., in order to prove that freedom does exist. It is sort of like the Baptist Historian who was, I think, a little too enamored with an Episcopalian who criticized the Baptists back in the 18th century. Seems the Episcopalian did not care for all that arguing, but what the Baptist forgot was that during that same period, while they were arguing hot and heavy, the Baptists were obtaining religious liberty, uniting Separates and Regulars, winning General Baptists over to particularism, doing evangelism in quantity and quality, helping to launch the Great Century of Missions or what we call the Modern Missionary Movement, and experiencing the blessing of God in the Great Awakenings. There is more, but I defer.
You didn’t agree with me 100%? Why you dirty, rotten, no-good…sorry, couldn’t resist.
Extremely well said as usual. That trip to Africa really made an impact.
You surely didn’t read his response to my comment. Or maybe you did. Don’t tell me. Let me guess.
Traveling to Africa made me grumpy, Dr. James!
even if I….correction in the first line.
I was given two pieces of advice years ago that are worth repeating. 1. As a leader don’t fall for the “coyote syndrome.” Two coyotes in a 500 acre track of land can howl to where you think you have 1,000 coyotes on your place. A handful of critics can make it seem everyone in the church, state or national convention believes you are doing a lousy job when that is not the case at all.
2. When you feel the need to share your opinion on everything, especially when it’s critical, your voice becomes like old wallpaper. Everyone is familiar with it, doesn’t like it and wishes it could be changed. Save your opinion sometimes. Some of these critical guys are right every now and then but few seem to take them seriously even when they are.
The boy who cried wolf comes to mind here.
Welcome home Dave!
I have almost ceased from following much of the garbage on social media etc.. Too busy and no eternal worth in much of it. I really think the situation comes down to one simple fact: we have some who are just ticked off that they missed the Apostolic age. And we can all thank God they did!
As for me, I would rather spend my time serving my local church and working with Pastors across the country in multiple denominations. Much more rewarding and humbling!
If I’d had two or three more days, I think I’d have gotten Bart straightened out.
Good thing you didn’t have two or three more days!
Nice.
Dave,
You would have needed more than that! Much more!
Also I would add that I contacted some of these men privately in different ways and had no resoponse at all. I fiqured it was the fact I’m just a pastor and wrote it off but what you said is not true that they respond, even if it isn’t a rant…however the 18% we use to give has been slashed to 3% now, they may control who they respond to but I help control what we give them. And the 3% is in bad jeporody at this time.
Again, just because they didn’t agree with you doesn’t mean they didn’t listen to you.
If you have to have everything your way, it will be hard to get along in the SBC.
I didn’t say that they always respond. I said that they take the information and pass it on to the board for consideration. I didn’t say that they were going to always respond or that they would yield to your opinions.
I also was talking about official contact with boards. I don’t know if private contacts with board members is effective. I’m sure it depends on the board member.
Welcome back, Dave.
Interesting article.
Dave, you said in a comment above speaking of SBC leaders like Rainer – “I didn’t say that they always respond. I said that they take the information and pass it on to the board for consideration.”
is that end of it? Consideration? Looking into it? no further response is required???
One example that illustrates my concerns here would be that when someone from the floor at the convention mentions, a specific book/issue/etc. that is clearly not in keeping with orthodoxy, to Rainer and he responds with something like “I did not know about that, but I will look into it” (this has happened several times during his tenure) …then I think is not only reasonable for SBC “regular joes” to expect a response after he “looks into it” and further it is a responsibility of the leader…maybe an explanation or a perhaps even a clear laying out of the rationale for what is and what is not sold on the shelves?
I can imagine if a question comes up in a business meeting in our church and one of our pastors respond with “I did not know that, but we will look into it” – that n actual looking int it, demonstrated by addressing it later, takes place. How about your church?
Would we be able to get away with repeatedly saying when criticized or questioned “I did not know that” or “I will look into it” and then not publicly responding?
I understand that one of the latest “cool evangelical outrages” is the idea of going frontal attack on what is dubbed “discernment ministries/bloggers” – especially those who dare criticize our denominational leaders – but we should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The fact is though, questions and criticism are not always to be shunned but are often important, necessary and even helpful. I know it has been the case in my life and ministry.
We as pastors must guard ourselves against insulation against all criticism in our ministries by being open and transparent when it comes to criticism – which in part is demonstrated by actually responding to concerns and not just respond with “I will look into that” – it is not only reasonable but, I contend, yes even godly, to expect that from our denominational leaders.
Specifically, as far as Lifeway – Heresy and unorthodox writing should not be on the shelves that seems to be common horse sense to most of us – but apparently our leaders are still “looking into it”.
(I am not talking about about perspectives/interpretations within orthodoxy/BFM2000 here, I am talking stuff outside of it.)
I need to go back and re-read what I wrote. I thought I wrote about how we need to give criticism in humility and grace and receive it in the same spirit – both us and our leaders.
Evidently, what I actually wrote was “Vent your spleen in the most fleshly way possible about anything you don’t like about LifeWay. Use as much sarcasm as possible. Be demeaning and nasty if you can.”
My bad.
I’m gonna ask folks to stick to the topic of the post.
For those who wonder, I’ve deleted a series of comments – so if you didn’t see them, you won’t know what I’m talking about. Consider yourself lucky.
David: You just alienate one third of the SBC, the third that is alienated, angry, aggressive, aggravating, adversarial, acrimonious, aseptic, austere, and air-heads too boot. You trip to Africa must have improved your wit; it certainly sharpened it. Don’t know what it will do for the readership of our blog or the correspondents (I suspect a decrease, but one never knows). Being as Baptists like a good fight, we might compare this particular blog to WWII (the good war, par excellence). However, I doubt that that will fly, but it might fry. Too bad I can’t close like our noted respondent who begins his closing, “I am…,” as if we didn’t know without the “I am.” You might start the whole blog toward healing, if you would just forbid that “I am….” business. Come to think of it I have seen “I am” on here in a long while Did some one hurt his feelings? David, I do believe you have stirred up a hornet’s nest, like those boys in the commercial who threw rocks at one.
haven’t seen…in a long time.
It’s not the first hornet’s next I’ve kicked over.
Probably won’t be the last.
I’m not sure how sweet I need to be to say what I said. I have contacted lifeway in private starting at least 4 years ago…. I did not rant, I simply pointed out blantant issues. Of course we all could say that tone is more important thant truth….and Dave did you not get my first post? This was in addition too….
On another note, we do have a bfm 2000 and no books should be sold that can’t clearly fall in those parameters. What parameters dovtgey now use? Any? And where can I find all these explanations for I have never seen any? Especially about Rainer and Setzer setting on the info on Malarkys book for8 months and still selling the book…
Okay Alan, your point is made. Can we go back to the discussion of how we can best give and receive criticism?
Yes we can Dave…. Just saw this. Its your blog. I digress …. 🙂
Best way, David, is a donnybrook, a knock down and drag out brawl. Nothing clears the air like a good fight. Nothing gets a crowd like a real fight. Just witness the attendance at Dallas in ’85. I was there. Now that was scary. Seriously, sooner or later, folks get tired of fighting and start talking about love. Look at what South Africa did. Whoever hear of a nation having a Reconciliation Commission. Moved me to tears to see that on television, and one can now view videos of the effort on Youtube.
Welcome back to the states!
Reworded: could you please point to where I could find the explanation for LifeWay continuing to carry heaven tourism books after the convention basically voted to condemn them. Also please tell me where I could find the explanation of why Ed Stetzer and Thom Rainer would continue to sell Malarkys book after knowing for 8 months he recanted? Also an explanation on why they sell the shack, false preacher TD Jakes along with mystic Sarah Young stuff. I would like to read their explanation along with 62 other pastors in the Haywood Baptist Association. Thank you
This whole eight months knowing about the book is completely misleading. What Lifeway received was third hand info. So they should pull every book that is ever questioned by someone who says they talked to someone who heard about something? The mom apparently never saw fit to contact anyone at either Tyndale or Lifeway directly. Seems like she could have done a bit more than running to Phil Johnson and Justin Peters.
I suspected as much. There is a whole industry that deals in innuendo, personal attack and destruction – often without regard to facts and truth.
Thank you for giving us some information.
So, there it is.
You have immediately taken this “reasonable explanation” as “what you have suspected” and summarily dismissed criticism as “whole industry that deals in innuendo, personal attack and destruction”?
Without a bit of sarcasm I ask – how is it any different for you to have your mind made up that Lifeway is “in the clear” than it is with those who insist they are “in the wrong”?
Without a clear explanation beyond ” we looked into it” – none of us really know – now do we?
I would just like a clear explanation why they had the book on the shelves in the FIRST PLACE.
Alan… May I ask a few questions to you?
1 – Have you read the books you wish removed?
2 – If you have do you think that others who purchase the books to read can, by the leading of the Spirit of God, discern the good and bad within the books as you have?
I am not afraid of reading books contrary to the bible. I have found it helpful to understand the fallen world and present culture we live in and must minister to. I am not afraid of my church members reading these books either. It has allowed for some good conversations and some quality teaching opportunities.
Jon let’s be honest. One certainly has every right to read whatever they want. However LifeWay as an entity of SBC has a responsibility first and fore most to adhere to Baptist doctrine and our agreed statement of faith, the bfm2000. I took a poll one morning about 5 years ago with about 250 in worship of who thought “if LifeWay carries a book that it will be correct on its doctrine” ? Almost every hand went up. The truth is the vast majority of our cobgregants expect LifeWay material to be correct and ready for baptists to use. It is not, nor by the evidence, do they use our agreed upon statement of faith. And you did not address Rainer and Stetzer knowing for about eight months the Malarky story was false and until broadcast would continue to sell the book.
You’re off here and I suggest you write a piece on the topic of LifeWay and what book policy they should follow.
You err in that congregations have a right to expect LifeWay curricula, offered for use in church small groups and Sunday Schools, doggone sure ought to conform to the BFM. In fact, every piece for that use is approved in accord with it and the doctrinal guidelines are printed in each issue. Not so for general merchandise for the public need not so conform, nor should it. There is a discussion worthwhile on this.
I find my disgust heightened by Jesus junk at the counter. That is as objectionable as “The Shack” in my opinion.
BTW, you are one powerful dude indeed if you speak for all the churches in your association. I’d bet Georgia pecans that you don’t…but we just had our Executive Director say he spoke for all 1.4 million Georgia Baptists, so you’re a piker compared with him. 😉
I give myself a “D” for syntax in this comment…barely passing. Boo hoo.
I didnt say i speak for all them but you can bet the pecans they are all wondering about lifeway right now.That is a fact!
This is what I said William: “I would like to read their explanation along with 62 other pastors in the Haywood Baptist Association. Thank you”
And as the last moderator and current evangelism director I think I’m a little more in touch with their thoughts than you…. just saying
No its not misleading. The mother had made it public and Peters is a former trustee. I would expect them to at least have contacted someone to see if it was true. It wasn’t coming from someone living under a bridge with mental illness. See this is the problem, Dave and crew expect Rainer and Setzer only to address them and people like them in their circle. If we don’t fit their idea of what “gentle critics” are we should just be cast aside (as if that is what Jesus would do) everyone else is out of the loop. This is the good ole boy network and they want our churches to fund them and shut up…no more…
Just how are Southern Baptists funding “them”? Not through CP dollars.
At what percentage of customers (of SB strip) should it take for LifeWay to follow the will of the people (or better a few persons)?
If baptists were not buying the books, LifeWay would reduce them or pull them. It sure seems baptists are buying those darn books you want burned.
I am not convinced that LifeWay is supposed to be a store that sells only one doctrinal idea. Gosh… most, if not all, baptist churches can’t even have a unified doctrine on most things.
Should LifeWay sell:
1 – reformed theological books?
2 – tithing according to Malachi?
3 – pre-trib doctrine?
Do we shun those baptist who might like reading edgy material?
jle
Good words Dave. (It sure didn’t take long for an opportunity to practice what you preached on this one!)
Glad to have you back.
This is the problem. It’s so hard to make measured critique when it’s seen as permission to open the floodgates of hate.
But thanks, Doug.
Hold up. Dave Miller criticizing critics for critizing SBC leaders? Again? Say it ain’t so.
We literally called that.
Dave,
You really shouldn’t let JD get under your skin. You already know what happens and no good will come of it.
Deleting your response to JD won’t help. I’m sure he got a screen shot.
JD, I don’t think you’re hearing what David is saying. He’s not criticizing critics merely for criticizing SBC leadership, he is, as he has long done, criticizing critics for failing to do their criticism in a godly, humble, and gentle manner (see Eph 4:1-2, and especially 2 Tim 2:24,25). I’d have to agree with him. A lot of critics *are* quarrelsome, and once they’re convinced that someone is wrong, they consider that the only means of love that they are obligated to show to that person is an attempt at correction, with the whole bit about ‘correcting with gentleness’ somehow ignored.
Ben,
This is a phenomenal comment. Your last line is extremely insightful. And I think you’ve modeled what you are saying in this comment–your comment is I believe gracious, gentle, and truthful.
Good point, Ben and Mike.
I think on the flip side of this are two facts. 1.) We writers transmit emotion (and even meaning) poorly via electronic media as compared to “face-to-face”. Though some (many?) make it clear they are not being gracious and gentle, others may be taken incorrectly by not transmitting well what they meant/felt. 2.) We readers tend to feel that those we know and/or agree with are being more gracious and gentle than those we don’t know and/or don’t agree with.
Wow. After that, I don’t think I’m going to have any low self-esteem problems for a few days. Though I’m sure caution is advised: I’m quite aware of my own ability to go from ‘extremely insightful’ to sticking my foot in my mouth (clear up to the kneecap) in a short amount of time.
It’s my experience that most congregant know and care little about what goes on in “the SBC”. Most folks thoughts have only a little mileage past their home church’s sphere of influence. I believe that is a travesty, but it’s part of who we are as baptists. Here’s a few questions I challenge you to ask your members…
1. Who is your current SBC President? If you don’t know, name any former President.
2. Name more than two SBC Seminaries. Can you name two?
3. What is the current name of the former “Sunday School Board”?
Sir,
Let me say I both agree with you and disagree with you – so long as I can be a Southern Baptis and not considered a social media terrorist bent on destruction not change.
Yes a little sarcasm to begin but in order to make a point. First, what you give with one hand you take with the other. It is difficult to determine your categories of dissent, one is a southern baptist who disagrees, the other a Social media terrorist, how do we determine what we are.
I would suggest that some of the questions regarding what lifeway sells have in fact not been answered – just silence. I don’t suggest that Thom Rainer is a promoter of heresy, nor do I expect some sort of baptistic uber purity test for all books sold, but a general orthodoxy is expected with some level of warning or caution for those which are heterodox.
But there must be accountability at least answers to reasonable questions.
We will not always agree with one another to be sure. But we can still have confidence in each other, but that atmosphere of trust simply doesn’t exist right now. If I had to access it I would say that from what I have observed it appears leaders at SBC only answer to themselves, not members. I could be wrong, my perspective may be wrong, not seeing the whole picture – but when we get silence it is hard to see the whole picture.
I’ve tried doing away with ballot votes in the two churches I’ve pastored as well. Have been told in both nothing will ever get done if others know how they voted. It’s a shame the place that should operate completely in light, the church, can’t find a way to deal with each other face to face, disagree with grace, and needs to conduct business in the shadows so often.
As for criticism, we’re dealing with it big time here in SC with recent statements in a sermon regarding the Ten Commandments by the pastor of the largest SBC church in the nation. The state convention even spoke on the issue which is unheard of around here in regards to confronting a pastor. I applaud them for it. It was done with humility and grace, and it was necessary. We need to speak up in regards to issues of compromise, including the sale of books we should not be selling. As with most things however, how it is stated is often more important than what is stated. We need leaders who are statesman like but who have the backbone not to compromise scripture, not bomb throwers. Sadly, this is missing in basically every area of leadership in almost every area of our culture
Here is an honest question for Dave and crew given your stance you have portrayed here, what would be a book or author that shouldn’t be in a Lifeway store? I mean do you actually think there is anything that shouldn’t be there short of a Hustler Magazine?
Alan: “… what would be a book or author that shouldn’t be in a Lifeway store?”
Norm: A tyranny of the shoulds? Hmmm … what could or might LW stock, what books could or might be helpful? Am I more at ease with should or more at dis-ease with should when I consider could or might or perhaps or ? Am I focusing on growing or not making mistakes? If I make a mistake, do I despise myself for not, then, reaching the glory that I wish to attain? If I am a certain way, do I then suppose that must be the way of others, too?
Too often, debates among Southern Baptists on blogs and social media look like all the other online flame wars, minus the profanity.
“My brothers, these things ought not to be so.” James 3:10
Jeff you may well be correct. Could be we need to be doing this in a closed room just us, if it is needed. On this subject I think some form of debate is needed but maybe not in the wide open public, yes.
Jeff, amen, amen, and amen.
That was what I thought I was trying to say.
We need to have an atmosphere of respect where we can discuss, disagree and debate without the vileness that is so present on social media.
Well said.
Dave in all honesty, your article and what seemed to be a dismissivness of those with valid questions of LifeWay and what seems to be a permissiveness of LifeWay officials to ignore any voice they choose (I know your going to say and have said just because they didn’t respond does not mean they ignored me…same thing to me a simple email saying we looked into ti and dont agree with you would be a good start) If we never hear from them what assurance do we have they actual entertain our complaints? So the way I see your article and comments is that we should not question them and if we do expect no response and be happy (and do it in a more gracious manner, this one I will give you) Let us remember at some point they do work for the Lord but they are employees of the convention which is me as well as you.
Yes, usually using college football conference/team accolades/references as thinly-veiled barbs in lieu of the normal “smiley” emoticons that everyone generally uses to “conceal” their snark.
Well, SEC fans maybe.
Sorry.
🙂
On the Lifeway conundrum: they’re in an impossible spot (perhaps of their own making) on the issue at hand. A few years ago, people threw a fit, including some authors and publishers, over Lifeway slapping “Read with discernment” stickers on books of questionable theology. I seem to recall a few comments from well-known authors that weren’t labeled that they would agree with their publishers to cutoff all ties with Lifeway if it kept up. It wouldn’t take long to have Lifeway only selling B&H stuff at that rate–and the viability of running a business in that manner is clear. There’s none.
Second, we’re not willing that any CP money go into Lifeway, thus demanding that the business operate at, bare minimum, break-even. I have absolutely no problem with that, but when you tell someone they have to make the business work without losing money, they are going to make choices related to that.
Third, now we’re not happy with what they are selling. While I think the press release about pulling “Boy who went to heaven” seems a little thick-headed in Lifeway’s response, (seriously, “We can’t keep up with complaints”? You had direct contact and a resolution from the SBC–that should jump to the head of the better-double-check-this line,) it continues to be the fact that people will buy it. Why? Because churches are not teaching discernment. Lifeway, generally, is supposed to serve the literature/book purchasing needs of Southern Baptists and the wider Christian community. We have clearly communicated, through the trustees *we* elect, through the money *we* spend, through the speakers *we* go listen to, that this is what *we* want.
So while I have several concerns about the retail side, really and truly Lifeway is doing what Southern Baptists have approved. We have a mechanism for approving and holding accountable–and since we are not using that mechanism to change behavior, then we are supporting the continuation.
Doug, it is important to note that Southern Baptists are not the only ones who shop at Lifeway. In fact, I expect most who are not Southern Baptists do not even know Lifeway is Southern Baptist (which of course is at least part of why they are called Lifeway). I don’t think we should be concerned with books that are outside of Baptist beliefs, but books like The Shack that are clearly outside of Christian beliefs should not be on the shelves at Lifeway. The SBC cannot just say, “We have no culpability in making these books available for purchase,” when we could simply choose not to sell The Shack.
I have no desire for Lifeway to run their list of books by me for pre-approval. I would like them to sell only Christian books.
“I have no desire for Lifeway to run their list of books by me for pre-approval. I would like them to sell only Christian books.”
Well said.
“”are not the only ones who shop at LifeWay””
I think therein is the problem: it’s all about profits. I’m not saying this is right or wrong–I have my opinion. I don’t think that there can be an argument that when LifeWay changed their name it was because they wanted to change their game. And, that game puts them in compromising position as has been noted in resolutions at the Convention.
In order to be more profitable, every business needs a continually expanding market (or ever increasing prices that will at some point dead end).
Southern Baptist as a whole seem to have embraced this new direction at LifeWay. There has definitely been a slide in direction. I have never known anything to slide uphill.
I think LifeWay is just systematic of the natural process of the death of denominations. They slide a little, then a little more. Finally, they hit the bottom shelf.
The interesting thing about SB’s has been our ability to defy gravity and slide back up hill. That takes an enormous amount of effort.
I believe you have hit the nail on the head.
Lifeway is a business, and is in business to make a profit so that it can plow on. For good or ill. I sat at a retreat several years ago and asked a Lifeway VP about the exorbitant costs of the FAITH system that was all the rage. I wanted something to train my small church leadership in evangelism and thought about supporting an SBC entity rather than D. James Kennedy (pesky Presbyterian that). But the start-up and maintenance costs of implementing FAITH was astronomical at that time for my small church – so I asked the VP about it. While the VP was apologetic (I will grant him that) he stated clearly that for LIFEWAY to be viable he had to have an astronomical amount of sales every week. He could not absorb the research costs of FAITH, so it had to be what it was – D. James Kennedy worked pretty good for us. I imagine that is what the current crew at Lifeway are doing now – having to weigh what is right versus what will keep the entity afloat. They took the job knowing that they had a responsibility to keep the fiscal realities of the business in check. I do not doubt they are good men, fine Christian men and women. I just believe they are trying to hold the line on what they were asked to do – and are finding it harder and harder to manage with the pressures of a far flung empire that has a never ending thirst for funds. Remember the short story, “Rocking Horse Winner” and the never ending mantra “need more money, need more money”.
The issue is that WE the Convention have put them in this box. By not allowing for significant subsidizing using Cooperation Program gifts, we have forced Lifeway to subsist on market forces. We have demanded that they get into all sorts of things – to be experts on pretty much everything and to make that expertise available to the churches. When the Sunday School Board merely printed quarterlies, study guides, and a few other things they could maintain costs in order that even a small church could afford the material. But when the entity started branching off to become all things to all men, then they have become beholden to the almighty dollar. The small church often cannot afford the largess of Lifeway – even the consultants who can do us some good. No, we often have to hear the batterings of Lifeway employees share with us how we ought to just give up and set up a screen to allow some MegaChurch Pastor to start up a satellite church in our building – hey they will pay the bills. We, the Convention, did that to Lifeway. We cannot complain to much now about what we have wrought.
I think it was Jesus who taught us about choosing between God and mammon. I pray that we get this right – and have the fortitude to see it through.
Rob
In addition to books of a heretical nature, which Lifeway has no right to sell, there is the violation of the Christian teaching on how missions, etc., are to be supported, namely, by the free will offerings of the people. However, the profits from Lifeway as they were from the old Baptist Book Stores went to missions, and the idea of the colporteur (the ministry of books which began in the days of the Reformation) was set aside, never mind how that violated our biblical teachings. We also have to remember the attractions of money and power which the sales of books and religious artifacts involve, along with the Sunday School/Bible Study materials, the concentration of powers enables outside forces to control teachings, practices, etc. Even so we still have a massive amount of personnel who seek to tell the truth as best they understand it, some of whom have some knowledge of the founding theology which is the most evangelistic and awakening theology in the world, rightly understood. It is that that is coming back, and even the plan of the conspiracy to grab control of the whole earth will find problems with trying to stop that which is attended with supernatural power in the persuasion of the people. Remember the stone smiting the old image in its feet of iron and clay in Dan.2. That stone, cut out of the mountain without human hands, becomes a great mountain which fills the whole earth.
On the post at hand:
Typically, vocal and public criticism of entity heads is a fairly fruitless gesture. Here’s why:
They will listen to people they trust. They don’t listen (using listen as “listen and adjust what they do) to strangers without really good reason. Guess what? Most of us are the same way. Random guy on the Internet drops a comment on my blog and tells me to change how I preach?
He can take the next bus out of town. On it or under it. Don’t care.
Dave makes the same comment? Bart? Dwight? I will take it to heart–and I’ve only been in the same room as Dave at the SBC in 09 and 10. I did meet Bart in the lobby at Orlando. But I’ve interacted with them, I will listen.
Now, this is why the relationships with the wider community matter. And why we need to shift the trustee system to make sure every national SBC entity has at least one trustee from every state convention. I don’t know Thom Rainer. I read some of his stuff, but he and I don’t eat pizza together.
Therefore I don’t hearken immediately to what he says, and I don’t expect him to do so for what I say. But if I have a problem with Lifeway, I can connect with a fellow minister who is a Lifeway trustee, who can then raise those questions at the board meeting. Because I can take that through someone I trust, who is then trusted by those who I have concerns with.
Just lobbing from social media makes me feel better, but it doesn’t accomplish much. What I have I realized is that public critique gets me “on-the-record” as opposing something–but it does little to actually change the problem.
What, then, is my end-goal? Do I want people to know what I think, or do I want to see actual results?
Recognizing the amplification power of social media and the Net, here’s the other question: I can destroy the credibility of an organization or an individual if I try hard enough (at least within my circle). Is my problem with organization or individual worth it?
Put in farm terms: there’s weeds from rows 6 to row 9 in a 50 acre tract of corn. Shall I torch the whole thing? Sometimes, but that only works once or twice.
Now, the other side: it is, and should always be, acceptable and appropriate to ask open questions and have open discussions about the open behaviors of leadership. If we can’t ask “What is the effect of the latest from ERLC?” openly, then that’s a problem. We have to be willing to allow that discussion–but it comes back to our maturity. I can think ERLC posted, hosted, or pasted a silly thought without calling Russell Moore a heretic, a liberal, or a Yankees fan (worst possible insult). Same as one can question if SWBTS or SBTS is making wise decisions without questioning the salvation of Drs. Patterson or Mohler.
I’ll sum with this: I sat through trustee orientation with Augie Boto last week (and a bunch of other people). I’m going to write him and ask him to post the presentation for all to see–it’s one he’s used for years. If more of us understood how trusteeship works (you hold accountable for actions taken but let the professionals run the place) then we would have better results on this whole thing. But too many people think that either the trustees should rubber stamp the executives (a resounding “ABSOLUTELY NOT” from Boto) or that trustees have the authority to boss people in organization around (another “NO!”). We can handle these issues like adults–without handling it like Hamilton/Burr adults.
I love Lifeway. Are there books there I don’t agree with? Sure. Some I really disagree with. But few are outright heresy. But I’d rather put up with some questionable materials on the shelves occasionally, rather than see Lifeway be overly restrictive or worse yet go out of business. There are some great Christian books by authors who wouldn’t agree with every detail of the BF&M, but I’m glad the stores stock them. (Even some respected Christian authors would not agree with some of our Baptist distinctions in the BF&M, but I’m glad we stock C. S. Lewis, Tim Keller, and Michael Horton, to name a few). Going to Lifeway is like feasting on delicious watermelon on a summer day, even if I have to spit out a few seeds.
Well, I’ m just glad people are no longer complaining about all the Reformed books at Lifeway 😉
Good article, David. My only comment would be I think you are far too gracious in regard to the leadership of our denomination, as you outline in (3) or (4).
Maybe the individual leaders would “like” to really listen to other views, but I think the necessity to keep their job and the enormous weight of status quo on their backs makes this happen less than one might think.
I think the criticism of the leadership is at least in part the fault of the leadership over the years. Many in the trenches feel our organization has drifted from the grassroots of the local church. I understand this is not a new criticism. I’ve been an SB for forty years and it has always been around. I think the sentiment has grown, however, over the last 20 years or so.
I laughed a bit when you offered this in defense of denominational leadership: “””It has to get old being excoriated for everything you do and having every decision you make questioned, analyzed and second-guessed.””””
I’m sure you are aware that one or two pastors in our ranks might feel the same way.
God bless, thank you for the insights in this post.
CLARIFICATION: I was on my way to teach philosophy to high schoolers so I don’t think I made this point clear enough:
I believe that denominational people are genuinely great, God-fearing people for the most part–near 100%. I think it is the very fact of being a “denominational” worker that causes some separation.
Also, I find it hard to incorporate the views of 80 people, let alone 16 million. So, I can understand if someone takes longer to get back to me than say, “Verizon Customer Service.”
Oh . . . wait. They are still faster than “Verizon Customer Service.”
In watching this battle unfold it’s fairly clear that most people want to put the fault of heretical book sales solely on Lifeway.
I’ve said this before, and it’s fallen on deaf ears, but I’ll continue to say it. If Pastors would simply concentrate on preaching the true Gospel and exegeting the scriptures in their Churches, and even spending a bit of time warning their own congregants about the dangers of false teaching and marking the wolves, the sheep would stop buying these books. Supply and demand. Stop buying them and book stores will stop selling them.
Yes, I believe Lifeway has a responsibility here, and one day those in charge will answer before the High Judge for their work here. But the Pastors need to be more pro-active and stop promoting heresy at the worst, or turning a blind eye to it at the least. The energy spent sending snarky tweets and writing hostile blogs would be better spent properly shepherding their own flocks and writing good sermons that protect the sheep.