You can’t make this stuff up. I’m not going to link it.
We had the Militant Trads, but they self-destructed. We’ve had the Rabid Cals for years, Ascol was a pretty decent spokesman for that segment of SBC life. Now, hopefully, the Rabid Cals have self-immolated.
It’s Wagnerian, brethren/sistren: Gotterdammerung. You might have to change a gender or two to get a good fit.
Thank God for the sensible multitudes in our convention. Ignore the rest.
_____________
Shortest article ever. Doesn’t need to be explained.
I defended Cals against rabid Traditionalist attacks for years. When C316 collapsed, suddenly it seems Calvinists took up the attacks themselves.
Except these Calvinists are more vicious than the Traditionalists were.
Why can’t Ascol get in on calling the SBC to corporate repentence – it seems all the rage.
Just poking around. FTR, I think ascol and gang are out on a wobbly limb here (to say the least).
We need to be frank about what Ascol’s video (at least the trailer) actually says: In the trailer, he never defends Calvinism, nor even suggests reasons to consider it. He does not open a door for dialogue at all on the main issues the Founders organization exists to promote. Instead, he uses deeply edited video snips to proclaim that Southern Baptists who give ear to racial equality, aid to the poor, and other matters are being unfaithful to the teachings of scripture. How can we preach the gospel without calling people to repent of sin? How can we call people… Read more »
Exactly Fred.
William: Short to the point post that has more common sense and Bible packed into it than all the tweets that have been written, including mine. Kudos my friend.
Ok William, you say it doesn’t need to be explained. I am sorry, but I don’t understand your post. I know what you mean by Cal and Trad. I need some more background though. Who is Tom Ascol and what has he called on us to apologize for and what does the short article mean. As of now I have no idea what you are referring to. Can you explain better? Thanks.
Google it Richard and all kinds of information comes up. I am sorry but I have little patience when someone asks someone else to do what they could do in seconds. I know it’s not right I am impatient, but it does drive me a little nuts.
Drives you nuts? That’s a short drive.
Just teasing, Debbie. It’s probably even shorter for me….but the blogeshere really needs to learn to laugh again and ratchet things down (on many, many fronts) – hence the levity I am attempting to bring in to this discussion. (I am certainly speaking to myself when speak of ratcheting things down.)
Seriously? I was just trying to figure out a vague and unclear post. But a link would have helped. Sure I know how to Google. Please don’t talk down to me.
Richard,
I suppose that means if you google it you will see it just as everyone does.
Except not everyone sees anything all the same.
Seems you need to google what longsuffering and grace means in the lives of Jesus followers. Oh, being snippy with me will only illustrate my point.
I’m sympathetic to your query, Richard. It would take too long. Alan Cross has a good stream on twitter about this. Militant Trads is my affectionate name for SBC Today (now defunct) crowd. Rabid Cals applies to Founders and some of their more zealous followers. John Calvin would be embarrassed, I think, but I’m not used to applying 16th century brainpower here.
Nope. Please explain the subject or at least give us a link or you quickly lose my interest.
Thanks. Finally someone explains what we are talking about here (in coded and insider language). Appreciate the link.
Richard, there was a Baptist Press article about this yesterday, or I would not have had a clue what the post was about either. http://bpnews.net/53327/4-seminary-leaders-voice-concern-over-films-preview
I just can’t believe in this day and age commenters do not know how to do an internet search. If I don’t know something I look it up. It works.
I’m not sure that the issue is an inability to do an internet search. It’s understandable that a lot of people could come to this article, and respond that there’s not enough information for them to understand the article. It’s for the people who are already familiar with everything in the post.
Also, I’m not sure it’s a fault to bear with people who don’t know how to do an internet search or those who choose not to. I mean we all ask people for information for things that we could google instead.
You really need to see the trailer itself. It helps if you were at the Convention in Birmingham, and actually saw and heard some of the forums from which comments have been lifted and mis-used. Even so–viewing the trailer with an alert mind will make much of what Ascol is doing very clear.
This why I am no longer a Southern Baptist — All the fighting of the 80s, of the 90s, and 2 000s and now this. With all the squabbling of the SBC has become a laughing stock of those churches who are busy about kingdom work. I mentally turned the switch off in my head the time I saw a Joyce Meyers book in a a SBC Bookstore, or the time the SBC President went to speak at the heretic Mike Bikels’ church (IHOP) I’ve been keeping up with the SBC, but I believe this was the last article I’ll… Read more »
Kelly Dunn, I can appreciate your position and decision. I can take a few more straws but my back can only take a few more straws before my back is broken. The gulf between the leaders and the unknowing members grows. I do not know if I am the proverbial camel or the proverbial lemming, either a broken back or a cliff dive. I am hanging on as long as I can.
I wondered when SBC Voices would join the condemnation chorus (you’re as predictable as your nemesis at P&P – just in the other direction). Maybe you’re right – but shouldn’t judgment wait until after the movie is released and we see the whole thing?
The trailer had enough information in it Gus to make a judgement. Please, give us credit. And I suggested that Founders let us SBs see it before the national release. So far crickets.
I would also ask you Gus, to tone down your demeanor. I have been battling for 13 years trying to get us not to be jerks in the battling. We show you respect, please do the same. They do enough stupid name calling, thinking themselves intellectually superior to last me a lifetime without them knowing the Bible at all.
Debbie: First, I often agree with points made on this blog (by bloggers and commenters) and often I don’t. My point is very simple: I figured this blog would immediately join the chorus of nay-sayers about this project even before seeing the whole movie and I was correct. Nothing more to it than that. As for tone and demeanor, I get you don’t like being compared to P&P but otherwise, I’m unclear how what I said suggests any kind of tone that requires scolding.
Gus: A trailer is put out to get people talking and let people know what to expect. A judgment is expected from the trailer and the person putting one out is generally hoping that the judgment would be a decision to see the movie. The “let’s wait and see” only comes out when the reception was less favorable than hoped for. So we are expected to make a judgment based on the trailer presentation based off what was shown in the trailer and also perhaps background info from those producing the trailer. Given that, it is normal and acceptable for… Read more »
Kimberly: You’re proving my point. I’m not “for” or “against” the movie, or anyone involved, either in the making of the movie or those who might have problems with it. I am not for and I am against people making judgments about the whole of anything based on brief excerpts.
“you’re as predictable as your nemesis at P&P – just in the other direction” – unintended compliment of the century…
Kimberly: No it’s not. Both blogs exhibit an ironic unwillingness to ever consider the possibility their point of view might be incorrect. The only difference is that SBC Voices is much more polite, which is a good thing and much appreciated.
Also, it is interesting that you call him out on tone when the blog post he is commenting on is snarky.
By the way, I dont care for the trailer or what it appears the documentary will be. I also didn’t care for P&P’s take.
I do appreciate Gus’ willingness to call Voices out though. Wouldn’t seem fair if you wanted to evaluate others, but didn’t want any for yourself.
Yes, it’s too bad I missed all the friendly discussions and debates about Social Justice. I kept waiting for someone to put together a forum where the SJ, Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality advocates and the people concerned about such things would discuss and take questions from an audience. Well, that isn’t going to happen. So one side gets creative and makes a film, and the other side doesn’t like it. That’s it in a nutshell. These arguments aren’t going away. And there are lots on both sides of the issue, and some on both sides of the issue at… Read more »
“So one side gets creative and makes a film, and the other side doesn’t like it.
That’s it in a nutshell.”
That is as untrue as the untruths in the film promo Louis. That is not “it in a nutshell” and you know it. Good grief.
This piece by Chris Bolt about the film was so good, Robert Downen from the Houston Chronicle who was one of the reporters who broke the sex child abuse scandal in the SBC, took time out from his needed vacation to comment and feature it on twitter.
This is the truth Louis. A little more than in your comment. https://twitter.com/clbolt/status/1153862112663543808
Thanks for the link. I looked for it and it said the tweet was deleted.
No. That’s it.
It is. And Chris had his reasons I am sure that I don’t question, but it was spot on accurate and very good.
Well, sorry I couldn’t read it.
I think I know why Chris Bolt deleted his tweet. Tom Ascol and Founders have taken down the original trailer and replaced it with their broadcast talking about the film. The trailer is completely gone from the internet. Good for Tom and Founders. Now let’s see what happens next.
I don’t know Tom Ascol from a hole in the ground. Sorry, I don’t. But I will ask this again. What was the point in Resolution #9 at the annual meeting? Why was it needed? What was its purpose? I read a few things from various sources. I even read a 6 part article from some prof at SEBTS on the strengths of CRT, and I still don’t get what the real intent of this resolution was. It seemingly came out of nowhere. It is quite frankly, weird. So, in that environment, you get conspiracy thinking.
Yep. It seemed to many to possibly be a wink and nod to CRT and intersectionality ideology and worldview. After some time has passed and I have read numerous articles and blogs and the comments for and against the resolution… I would still vote the same way today that I voted in the hall (against it, I didn’t think it spoke strongly enough against these prevelant but godless wordviews – in the end it was probably 60/40 for the resolution) But even so I do not think all our SBC leaders are steeped in CRT and intersectionality. It’s just a… Read more »
Dave: My belief about all of this is that one messenger submitted a resolution against CRT/I. I don’t think that the Committee wanted to bury it because that possibly would have brought the issue up in a more difficult setting. The messenger could have taken to the floor, and asked that his submitted resolution be considered. In that case, the committee would have been explaining that CRT/I is either good, not so bad, or a tool, without having anything in writing. So, the committee decided to bring a resolution in favor of CRT/I, in its own words, where it could… Read more »
Mark Smith, The majority of SBC members are vary much aware and strongly support Resolution 9. It will be disseminated and explained to the majority of SBC members as it will be of great benefit for the average SBC in their walk with the Lord. Critical Race Theory will help explain the direction and resources spent to advance the areas that Critical Race Theory helps understand and find solutions. When love one another, the golden rule and Jesus loves me is to complicated for the average SBC member to understand , CRT is available to show the way. Critical Race… Read more »
For anyone not sure…this is total sarcasm. But fun to read…
Most important point was the sarcastic meaning of his first sentence: In truth, I suspect the vast majority of SBC church members will never hear about resolution 9. I know we haven’t discussed it at my (SBC) church.
-Andy
This was hilarious!
Steve,
Excellent use of snark!
Well done.
What fascinates me (saddens is a better word) is the “enemy of my enemy is my friend mentality” among Trads. The likes of Peter Lumpkins et al. seem to be in agreement with many of the positions taken by Founders, as they are attacking folks like Russell Moore, who has long been seen as an enemy of the Trads.
But it doesn’t always match up.
I was not a Trad, but I am also not a fan of CRT/I.
And I like Russell Moore.
People don’t always fit in boxes.
I have never been a “straight ticket” voter in matters like this.
Steve, you had me with that one. Score one for you. Good thing I can delete my own comments.
Kudos Steve. 🙂
After reading all the comments i can say this:
It is all very interesting….
I cant wait for the next episode to break.
Uh, no, i can wait.
It’s sad that Christians mirror the world in most everything today, we can’t have serious, reasoned debate any longer. Some people truly and sincerely believe that SJ, and CRT are close to being another gospel in light of Paul’s charge to the church in Colossians 3. I listened to Dr. James White on his program the dividing line this past week, and he used an example of a new young pastor fresh out Southeastern BaptistTheological Seminary which is ground zero for the promulgation of CRT, James Cone and that view. He said the pastor confronted a member family ( which… Read more »
“**** and instead of just slamming the source ( James White) how about taking 5 minutes to actually consider the ramifications of this teaching … ****” Without getting into defending or defaming personalities..I will agree with you that far too often these days people often summarily dismiss objections and/or suggestions based almost, if not exclusively, on personalities rather than actually being willing to consider the merits (or nuanced merits) of the what is being said. (Also, nuance is another causality to twitterverse driven debate.) While, quite honestly, this is the easiest, most pithy and most self affirming way of dialogue… Read more »
I 100% agree with everything you just said…
There is a rap song about the life of young people on the internet
Words to the effect…
The love is fake, but the pain is real, I have so many scars, I may never heal
Perhaps wisdom would dictate we wait to watch the whole film before passing judgement? Its possible to misconstrue a couple minutes of trailer.
Nah, I think we should go with our gut on this one. It’s going to be regrettable.
I agree David Griffin.
No. it isn’t. The trailer was quite obvious which direction this film was going. No doubt about it. You can wait, I am claiming I know and the direction is horrible in its out and out lies.
When 8 and 9 leaders plus Jacob and Rachel Denhollander, plus Kyle Howard plus Ashley Easter withdraw their interviews from it, they saw the same thing I saw out of the film
If this is an example of brotherly love, it’s not the sort I signed on for.
I’ve unsubscribed.
Good for you Robert. It is like night and day difference in Tom Ascol. I have a source who is pretty reliable who tells me that Tom Ascol will be running for President of the SBC next year. I figured it would be him or Josh Boice. When many die hard Founders supporters are even speaking out against the documentary, which I am grateful for their integrity, that doc trailer is very bad. Before I would not have been very concerned about this but given the bit the jugular vein and spread lies, be vicious approach of Founders these few… Read more »
Robert: At least I hope you are meaning unsubscribed from Founders and not Voices.
You’re unsubscribing over an 85-word observation that the divisive branches in our Convention are self-destructing?
I seek to not rejoice in the downfall of brothers….. whether I agree or disagree with them or not…. (admittedly sometimes I fail)
Sadly though, I have seen that both with Rick and Now with Tom.
Not making any personal accusations toward anyone – just a general observation.
Maybe it’s just me, I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, but I can’t make heads or tails of Resolution 9. It’s a total mess. I hope I’m wrong, but it has the feel of a document that gives up some ground gained by the conservative resurgence.