NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)–Three staff members of Southern Baptist Convention entities are among eight leaders of a new leadership school being launched by Mars Hill Church, the Seattle, Wash., mega-church co-led by Mark Driscoll.
Bruce Ware, Gregg Allison and Ed Stetzer will join Driscoll, John Piper and Sam Storms on the faculty of the Resurgence Training Center, a 36-hour graduate program in leadership. The faculty also includes executive director Rick Melson and Bill Clem, a leadership coach with the Acts 29 Network. The new school, according to the Mars Hill website, is intended to develop pastoral leaders for 100 new Mars Hill campuses and 1,000 churches started in partnership with the Acts 29 church planting network, which is exclusively Calvinistic.
When I read this article I say, “Praise God.” It is always a positive thing when Gospel-centered, godly men who love the church get together in order to train theologically-driven, mission minded pastors. Yet, some people will blast this. Lord, have mercy…. And you use the new training center to advance your glorious Kingdom.
There is no reason for Southern Baptists to not like this. This doesnt take away from what the SBC is doing, at all. These men can have two responsibilities without making one suffer. If you are a non-calvinist, that is great. Get trained somewhere that isn’t calvinistic. It shouldnt bother a noncalvinist that Calvinistic training centers exist. I will just say exactly what I mean; anyone who has a problem with this in any way is somewhat pathetic. I dont care that there are SBC leaders that hold only Non-calvinistic conferences, etc. Non-calvinists shouldnt care that some SBC leaders are Calvinistic and are willing to partner with non-SBC people in order to train Calvinistic pastors.
Evidently, from discussions I read over at our Baptist Identity friends’ blog, not everyone shares your enthusiasm.
.-= Dave Miller´s last blog ..Its a Miracle!! =-.
You’re right and it is pathetic.
It may just be me, but I thought that the BP article was written with a sneer.
.-= Jerry´s last blog ..Rev. Ike goes to his reward =-.
I picked up the sneer as well, again, pathetic.
I did not pick up the sneer. Actually, I thought it was a pretty balanced reporting of events that have happened. It is true that Driscoll is hated by a lot of Baptists and that Acts 29 is viewed by many of the same crowd with great ire. That required BP to include that. Unfortunately, for accurate reporting about SBC events, you usually have to go to ABP (a negative perspective, often). So, all in all, I thought the BP, which is now not so much a press organization but a public relations arm of the SBC, did a pretty… Read more »
What a great day in the kingdom of our Lord! Let the B.I. hounds howl, this is great news… and a great display of the type of kingdom advancing cooperation that we need to see a lot more of in the SBC.
Grace Always,
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Is NAMB a "Relic of the Past"? =-.
Wow, that’s all…just wow. The comments in this thread..along with the thread itself is so “Christlike.” Are they not??????? This post and the comments in this thread is a lot of what’s wrong in the Church today.
I’m sorry, but the attitude’s displayed here really dont show the spirit of Christ at all.
David
Really David? What is it that you have a problem with? Me pointing out the pathetic nature of people fussing over SBC Calvinists cooperating with Calvinistic networks in order to train pastors and plant churches? If that is what you find “unchristlike” then I should just say thanks because there is nothing unchristlike about it.
Excuse us for getting tired of the BI people who continue to belly ache at the name of Driscoll, Acts 29, etc… What is unchristlike is their belly-aching.
Acts 29 can do whatever they like. And, more power to them, Brother. I’m not fighting against Acts 29. I do not want the SBC to partner with Acts 29, nor join with them…due to their exclusive qualifications that would exclude 95% of the Ministers in the SBC. I think that they also have other issues that are troubling as well. But, I am not fighting against Acts 29. But, for you to call people pathetic if they may have questions about SB leaders going to training seminars at Mars Hill, and for others to say that there was a… Read more »
David: The dots still aren’t connecting for me, and Tim hasn’t answered my last question, at least yet. Are any of these folks on the GCR committee? Who is it, specifically, on the GCR committee who you think is going to introduce the idea of an official SBC church planting partnership with ACTS 29, and why do you think they might do it? Your objection to ACTS 29 doctrine and covenant, I understand. Your unwillingness to partner with them personally, I understand. Your fear that the GCR work is going to result in an official SBC-ACTS 29 partnership, I still… Read more »
David, It’s hard for me to see why you would be upset with what I said. I merely observed that the discussion at another site did not share Matt’s enthusiasm for the Acts 29 network.
What part of that is a problem?
.-= Dave Miller´s last blog ..WOW! Words of Wisdom from "Between the Times" =-.
David, your tone in the comment I’m replying to seems pretty sarcastic. And if it’s not, it just goes to show how easy it is for me to misinterpret your tone (and how easy it is for you to misinterpret someone else’s).
And on the subject of Christlikeness, Jesus wasn’t always real nice to everyone.
.-= Barry Wallace´s last blog ..A Southern Baptist elder’s encounter with demons… =-.
I can’t imagine that the SBC has a tent large enough for someone who has such a foul spirit. Yes, I’ve heard Driscoll’s attempt at placation, but I’m not convinced that he is God’s answer to the ills some perceive so trouble the SBC. I’ll wait until Acts 29 (a very telling label in regard to one’s biblical view I think). He’s not only going to improve the SBC, he’s going to fix the Bible. Just not a good fit I think. Though, I have no problem with Stetzer and others resigning to go work with Driscoll. Driscoll is probably… Read more »
My thought got away from me: “I’ll wait until Acts 29 has a century and half plus of mission work before I jump on board.”
To reiterate: I don’t know Driscoll, I only know his sermons and I am not impressed. This is not a personal attack on him, just his teaching.
I’m a student at Re:Train right now, taking a break from working on my first presentation. It’s been somewhat disheartening to see the articles over the past few days that seem to delight in attacking brothers in Christ. I’ve been blown away here by the singular focus of the leadership of Mars Hill and Re:Train to make sure it always stays “All About Jesus”. The Holy Spirit has already convicted me mightily about both my fear of man here and my willingness to make an idol of this opportunity. Before anyone posts another comment, whether good or bad, could you… Read more »
I think this is a great development. I think actions like this will help the SBC to stay a major player in the US church scene. The responses from the BI crowd and even the BP is what is driving people away from the SBC. I love the irony within the SBC….here we are looking at a resurgence of the Great Commission and yet all some can do is keep bringing up us partnering with the evil Calvinists….really….let go of it and refocus on the task at hand. And the classic irony of saying that we are Kingdom players but… Read more »
Recently, I had a discussion with a leader of one of our SBC institutions in which I suggested that we needed a course in Sovereign Grace Evangelism. The literature for such effort is abundant through out history. Leadership training will certainly be helpful, if it is biblically faithful.
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.
Matt – I appreciate you saying what you feel but I think you chose your words poorly to call people pathetic who might have a problem with the school. Many SBC’ers choose to reserve judgement on something until they’ve had a longer period of chance to review the issue. They do it with much prayer and research. Not everyone enthusiastically joins in on something new and fresh, even when it seems like a good thing on the surface. That is actually a good thing, and biblical. You just seem very defensive of you own opinion and by being defensive you… Read more »
Sallie, I am not calling people who are as enthusiastic about the new training program as I am. I understand that not even jumps on board with every new thing, no matter how good it might seem. What I am calling pathetic is the groups within the SBC that have a problem with this merely because there are paid SBC staff that have joined MARK DRISCOLL of all people, to train pastors and plant churches. What is pathetic is that people get offended just because some people in the SBC see Acts 29 as a good resource and partner for… Read more »
Matt,
You and whoever else can see Acts 29 as a good resource for church planting all you want…as far as I’m concerned. I’m not upset that you, or Ed, or anyone else wants to go teach at thier seminar. What I dont like, and what others arent too crazy about, is the possibility of the SBC partnering with Acts 29, or joining with them.
Does that make it clearer, Matt? Does my comment here make me pathetic with evil, sneering motives?
David
As long as you dont have a problem with people in the SBC cooperating and joining Acts 29 for church planting and training pastors then we have no problem.
007:
You said–“I’m not fighting against Acts 29. I do not want the SBC to partner with Acts 29, nor join with them…due to their exclusive qualifications that would exclude 95% of the Ministers in the SBC. ”
What are these qualifications that would exclude 95% of the ministers in the SBC?
Tom,
Acts 29 requires the Church planters that they support to be reformed in theology, and to believe in Elder ruled Churches.
David
I don’t think the guys at the other site should have made such a fuss against what they think just might happen. I don’t think we here should be anticipating their objection to this news a few SBC folks working with Mars Hill.
I see no reason to be upset. I don’t see anyone getting upset when SBC folks work with/cooperate with other non-SBCer’s that I’ve documented in the past.
.-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..Writing Opportunity with Examiner.com =-.
David:
You said–“Acts 29 requires the Church planters that they support to be reformed in theology, and to believe in Elder ruled Churches.”
Thanks.
Sincere question–what does it mean that they are reformed in theology? Could you give me a couple of examples? My thanks in advance.
Tom,
They mean by reformed that you must be a five point Calvinist.
David
David: Can you provide a link that says reformed = 5 pt. Calvinism? I went over the Acts 29 site and didn’t see that, but I might have missed it.
Southern Baptists have joined with others in partnering on things in the past, so why not Acts 29. Besides one fellow said he was appointed by them and was never ask about whether he was reformed or not (and he was not a 5 pointer). The real liberals on this issue were the 5-pointers anyway as in 1787 they decided that the preaching that Christ tasted death for every man would be no bar to communion. That was in VA, and it was done to facilitate union among the Separate and Regular Baptists. The Separates had a few who had… Read more »
While I don’t know much about Acts 29 or Driscoll, I do trust Ware and Allison to make wise decisions on with whom they would partner. Matt, I enjoy reading your blog regularly but would caution on some of the tone of the posts on this site. Not yours simply but we must be careful in how we speak of those who do not agree with us. There are a few people who post here who regularly sound like jerks (I say that, I pray, as a recovering jerk). I was convicted recently, again by Russell Moores sermon of which… Read more »
wow, what a promising endeavor! i’ve been waiting & praying to see more partnerships like this one, as well as more vision for missions & church planting & more foresight in ministerial preparation for such endeavors. given the complex makeup of north american societies (even at specific locations, where demographics can be pretty wide), creating a broader instructional & training base is going to continue to be an important adaptation. the trick will always be deciding where to draw the line – when do we say this person, respectfully, is too out of bounds to be a part this? still,… Read more »
Southern Baptist were Sovereign Grace believers from the getgo, and, for the most part 5-pointers in their origins. Except for allowing for preaching that Christ tasted death for every man, they were fairly commited to the so-called calvinistic view point as Boyce and Manly and Johnson and Mercer and Furman and Broadus and a multitude of others that could be cited. They even wrote Sovereign Grace works that were published by Southern Baptist agencies. Where do some of these folks come from who ignore the facts of the origins while peddling their view that we are a bunch of Aminians… Read more »
Following several blogs over the last few days, I wonder if people share their faith with as much passion as they discuss it. I wonder if those who blog daily talk to the lost daily. I will admit that it is easier to debate theology than to do missions.
I.Wonder: Frankly I get tired of that type of comment. It’s judgmental and not the least bit accurate. It’s tiresome.
.-= Debbie Kaufman´s last blog ..I Disagree With John Piper Concerning The Tornado That Struck Minneapolis =-.
Though some might be surprised… I am with Debbie!
Any one who cares for the gloy of the Lord Jesus Christ and the good of souls around him or her will seek to be faithful to those with whom the Lord brings them in contact. I ask God to show me the way, to help me find a way open to bear witness. Our son, a pastor, was setting in a restaurant that seated people on a need basis, and they seated a fellow and his wife at the same table. The fellow was a retired prof. who had taught where I had tasught and who had his doctorate… Read more »
@ i.wonder with all do respect, the church and those who care about it should not be ashamed about discussing or even debating theological issues. after all, missions is an orthopraxy (right practice) only when based on orthodoxy (right believe, i.e. right theology). if you don’t believe that, just look at mainline liberal churches in america who equate the gospel with food for the poor and missions with social support of the needy (and i think the church should be involved in that discussion, but those things are not evangelism, i.e. the proclamation of the gospel). just some thoughts mf… Read more »
There are those who would be just thrilled to death if every Calvinist were forced out of the SBC (regardless of whether they’ll admit it), yet have a problem with a group being exclusively “reformed.” What’s wrong with this picture? The reason people don’t like ACTS 29 is the same reason they don’t like Founder’s. They’re Calvinist. Complain about the cussing and rough edges all you want, but at the end of the day, it’s all about those terrifying doctrines of grace.
.-= Darby Livingston´s last blog ..Is Divorce a Bigger Sin Than Adultery? =-.
And the terrifying prospect of … Ahhhhh! … a plurality of elders instead of one CEO fighting with a bunch of deacons who want to be elders.
.-= Darby Livingston´s last blog ..Is Divorce a Bigger Sin Than Adultery? =-.
wow, you should just rename this site “arminians vs. calvinists.” isn’t that what EvErY post turns into?
Mike, and who seems more concerned about that topic?
what do you mean and to whom are referring? sorry, i don’t always read between the lines very well.
.-= mike f´s last blog ..canaanite fortification discovered in jerusalem? =-.
Personally, I don’t wish to run every Arminian out of the Convention. In fact, if every one would take a look at Church History, they would find that Arminians have won people who turned out to be Calvinists, and Calvinists won people who turned out to be Arminian. Spurgeon was won by a Methodist exhorter, and enjamin Radall was won due to the death of George Whitefield, and Randall who had planned to hear him in the hopes of being converted asked, “Who will tell about salvation now or how to be saved now?”(I am not sure now just how… Read more »