This week I was surprised to hear a portion of President Bill Clinton’s 1995 State of the Union Address (It’s less than 2 minutes in length).
As you can see, President Clinton’s remarks received a bipartisan standing ovation from the members of Congress in attendance at the speech.
I really don’t know what to say about this. There is so much that could be said.
For one, Clinton sounds just like Donald Trump.
A search of Hillary Clinton’s former statements regarding illegal immigration are similar. Mrs. Clinton’s current positions and comments sound nothing like this.
Given that both the Republicans and Democrats applauded President Clinton in 1995, it is logical to assume that the American people agreed with President Clinton at the time.
Mr. Trump, with Ted Cruz in a close second, made the strongest statements regarding illegal immigration in the primary election. Most professional pundits and most common people with whom I speak have credited Mr. Trump’s position on illegal immigration as the reason he won the nomination. Therefore it is safe to say that most Republican voters considered illegal immigration an important issue.
This issue is a challenge for the Church, including the SBC.
Immigration reminds me of issues related to war and poverty.
With regard to war, Christ was peaceful. The Prince of Peace. He had no sword. He urged his followers to be peaceful. That is something to reflect upon, especially when so many leaders, even religious leaders, are remembered for their military conquests.
But Christians have always wrestled with their calling to be peaceful, and their obligations to the City of Man.
Even in the 20th Century in the U.S., politicians such as William Jennings Bryan and Jimmy Carter were criticized for sometimes being naive when it came to leading a nation. Critics said that their Sunday School simplicity often ignored the larger context of war and peace, and actually put more people in danger.
With regard to poverty, Christ encouraged his followers to help the poor. But translating that into governmental or national policy is also a tricky thing.
Does the Bible command Communism or Socialism? What are we to make of the failure of Marxism as an economic system? The ongoing collapse of Venezuela is only the most recent example.
Has Marxism just not been tried by the right people or in the right way?
Can a simplistic approach to concern for the poor, which may seem compatible with Christ’s teaching, actually lead to more poverty? And to the denial of human rights that have occurred historically as plans for centralized economies are implemented, and always fail, and then the leaders double down on the central planning, and harm more people in the process?
And as for immigration, is it actually biblically mandated that countries have no boarders? Or that they must “welcome” those who enter or remain in the country illegally?
If so, what are the consequences? Is there no limit on the resources in terms of housing, jobs, welfare payments that can be taken from the productive in a society and given to those who are entering the country illegally? If there is a limit, what is it? And who gets to set the limit? And on what basis?
Can too much immigration over too short a period of time result in the eroding of the economic and social fabric of a nation? And if so, is that simply a cost that must be born because the Bible commands it?
These are difficult questions. And as the YouTube video shows, sometimes people agree, sometimes they change their minds and disagree.
Does the church have a clear mandate on all of these questions?
How do we uphold our values but avoid the dangers and pitfalls of naive thinking?
Politics is all about flip-flops. Dems once said it was okay NOT to act on a SCOTUS nomination and now are scandalized by the GOP not doing it. And many conservative Christians once said that character and morality mattered, but they are lining up to vote for the most immoral and indecent man ever to run for president – giving lie to the idea that they ever cared about character. It was evidently just about political power, not about character, because it’s okay to vote for a serial adulterer, pornographer, peddler of indecency as long as he’s running against Hillary.… Read more »
3 way tie with JFK and Bill.
I am SO weary of refuting this absurd notion that character and morality no longer matter to those who are voting for Trump. Those voting for Trump are not doing so BECAUSE of his character, but IN SPITE OF his character. Character is obviously important to us or we would not have chosen Cruz or Rubio in the primaries. It is not that character does not matter, it is that the preservation of society through Supreme Court judges matters, standing up for our soldiers in places like Benghazi matters, and a host of other issues that factor into the equation.… Read more »
That’s some mighty fine spin, but if character matters, it matters.
Rick: What you have written is the same as this. In business, character is important. If a person is a known liar and thief, I will not hire them. I will hire someone who is not a liar and a thief. But if no one applies to work at my business but liars and thieves, and because I don’t want a Walmart in my town, I will hire thieves and liars to beat out Walmart because I think having a Walmart is worse than hiring thieves and liars. Even though the thieves and liars will rob me blind and then… Read more »
Debbie, I appreciate your stand for character. Believe it or not, I share that stand. The problem with your analogy is that you do not have to hire anyone to work at your business. You can just close up shop or wait until a suitable applicant is available. On the other hand, on the first Tuesday in November, America MUST select someone to be President. There is no “wait and see” option. It will be one of two people. Since character matters to me, I will vote for the one I believe has the best character out of the two.… Read more »
I believe there is a common hermeneutical error made, which is to take biblical teachings meant for individuals and apply them to government. This is not to say there aren’t principles that should transfer, but government as “God’s minister” must pursue the common good of everyone, whereas individuals are free (and commanded) to sacrifice on behalf of others. Immigration is an example of this. On a policy level, I believe one could advocate that certain illegal immigrants be returned to their country of origin, while on a personal level take food and clothing to the same group of illegal immigrants,… Read more »
I don’t like to make too distinct a differentiation, but I think that as a church our concern should be for ministry. As a citizen, i have personal views that should be informed by scripture.
Josh, I think you hit the nail on the head and thank you for a well expressed comment. America has the most generous legal immigration system in the world and is the last bastion of Western Christian civilization, it is that simple. If Trump loses, the very foundation of this country will continue to erode and be lost. The choice is clear and stark, the contrast are real and certain. Clinton is of the secular world and promotes an agenda that is a ultra progressive. The Republican and Democrat establishment want no part of an independent Trump administration as one… Read more »
Josh:
That is the issue. And it becomes really tough because we want to see Christian principles shared among the broader society. But it’s how to apply those principles that becomes a tough thing.
I think it’s a pretty important distinction to make. If we don’t make the distinction, then we end up relegating the church’s responsibility to civil government or, just as bad, trying to take on civil affairs with the church (the error of the Middle Ages).
There also needs to be a distinction between the individual believer and the church. The distinction is similar to that between the church and the civil government, although we should see far more overlap between the church and the individual believer than we see between the church and civil government.
Yes, Bill Clinton made those remarks and every administration has said similar things including the Obama administration. The difference is that Trump has demagogued it more with his calls for building a wall with Mexico paying for it, calling illegals rapists and murderers and exaggerating the numbers.
Another big difference is that Trump evidently hasn’t met a dictator that he doesn’t admire. This guy gets scarier by the day.
Good article. A quote of note:
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.” -Margaret Thatcher
David R. Brumbelow
So the author (Guest Blogger) begins by stating that Bill Clinton was against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. However, once again Illegal is removed and all of a sudden it is simply about IMMIGRATION as if those opposed to ILLEGAL Immigration are opposed to Immigration. State what you want to discuss. If you want to contend that the church should support and condone and assist Illegal Immigrants then say so. Furthermore, I don’t know too many churches or pastors who are trying to actively identify whether an immigrant is illegal or not before helping them. This is a completely different scenario than if… Read more »
I don’t know if this is the author’s intent, but I do know that many people in favor of illegal immigration will quickly accuse detractors of being against immigration in general as though accepting immigrants is the most loving thing for people wishing to immigrate. The typical argument is that people come here to provide for their families. The countries they come from typically have people who stay who are providing for their families. There are people in the US who are not providing for their families, but rather letting the US government provide for their families. It’s true that… Read more »
While you say “Democrats like illegal immigration because illegal immigrants typically vote Democrat,” typically, illegal immigrants don’t vote. Are you being sarcastic or do you actually believe what you say?
I’m quote serious. Far more illegal immigrants vote than you are aware. That’s why there is an issue with voter ID.
Jim, I think you are correct that many (probably not all) who are in favor of Illegal Immigration (Or Open Borders if they want to call it that) believe those opposed are against Legal Immigration. Perhaps there are some who oppose all Immigration, but the overwhelming majority only oppose Illegal Immigration. It’s the political spin (even by Christians) that frustrates me. Of course we are to minister to and to spread the gospel with whomever we come into contact with. I see no reason to see their visa or green card to do that. I get that and I agree.… Read more »
Nate, I think we are in agreement on this. The clue is when you say “probably not all.” These “probably not all” people largely haven’t thought through the issue very well, have believed the surface-level arguments on the matter, or probably some combination of both. So it’s worth talking about it and laying out the deceit that’s out there, not only from the political side, but also from the private sector side; that is, some industries benefit from having undocumented workers that accept less pay, don’t take benefits, and can’t join a union. That’s just as corrupt and wrong as… Read more »
Jim, you have some proof of your claim that illegals widely vote? Why should they vote and risk drawing attention? How do they do this? I feel you have not thought this through.
They don’t vote on their own. They are enabled by mobilized activists.
Jim, it seems to me that you believe too much of what the ID people tell you. Remember the fellow from PA who said that their ID law would guarantee Mr. Romney (or who ever it was) the majority of the votes in the state? What is a “mobilized activist?” How do they do help illegals to vote? The most credible article that I have read on voter fraud said that to really make a difference you needed to be an election official. It also pointed out that you generally would need a large number of illegal votes to be… Read more »
Bennett, I don’t just believe what the “ID people” tell me without checking the facts and thinking through the issue, as you seem to imply. So let me explain my rationalle: First, I’ve been following voter fraud in general for a few decades now. From more sources than I could ever hope to remember off the top of my head, although Bill Buckley served as a primary source in the 90s: There is plenty of voter fraud that has been identified over the years. It varies from place to place depending on the loopholes available. In some areas, for illegals,… Read more »
Jim, well let’s start with the easy stuff. I mentioned before the official in PA who said that their voter ID law would assure his side (R) of the majority of votes in (I think) the 2012 election. The reason that the Ds complain about ID is exactly this logic. Just as the Rs feel requiring an ID gives them an advantage, the Ds feel that they would be at a disadvantage. So they complain loudly. I thought about trying to write a rebuttal to most of your points, but decided that was fruitless. I will stick to the minimalist… Read more »
Nate: Thanks for reading and commenting. No need to be hyper-technical. I found the Clinton speech absolutely fascinating. Right down to the use of the phrase “illegal alien.” Trump or Cruz could have spoken those words – word for word. My intent was not to limit the discussion to illegal immigration only. Because, for many, from a strictly moral standpoint it may be hard for some to discuss illegal immigration (enforcing existing laws) without then touching on what those laws should be. For example, the issue of deportation is simply the enforcement of existing laws. A violation of existing laws… Read more »
Times do change and so does political correctness. Not sure there are many people even democrats who favor open boarders. Our problem is not the boarder, but what causes people to want to cross a desert, barb wire, and police patrols to seek employment and a better life. The same thing that most of our great grandparents desired back in the 1890 to 1910 when our immigrant population (legal or illegal) population was about what it is now (14%). When we talk about jobs, what job are you wanting that is filled by an immigrant (legal or illegal)? This is… Read more »