Editor: I also receive the resolution from Joe McGee that William references, and had thought to respond. William did it first and did it better! I appreciate his perspective. You can (and should) read William at SBC Plodder.
The Consolation Baptist Association here in Georgia has passed a resolution suggesting that churches cut their Cooperative Program giving by 25-35 percent and designate this to “state missions” or, as explained to me, to their state convention.
I learned of the resolution from a comment left on SBC Voices, asked for and received a copy of it, and have had a couple of cordial conversations with Joe McGee, Associational Missionary for the association. A previous blog on the matter may be found here.
I judge this to be a well-intentioned effort by some very dedicated Christian colleagues to help the Georgia Baptist Convention in a time of great budgetary stress; however, any move to do so by encouraging churches to make steep cuts to their Cooperative Program giving is harmful to both the state convention and SBC entities.
The idea that state conventions should be helped by encouraging churches to decrease their giving to the International Mission Board, the North American Mission Board, the six SBC seminaries, and other SBC entities is far off the mark.
Joe told me that I really needed to read an explanatory article, linkedhere, that explained the resolution. I read it and found it to be a mixture of misapplied data and opinion. Couple of points…
Brethren, let’s rethink this thing. Thanks.
_______________
Addendum: Joe McGee has sent me a brief email stating that although we disagree on some thing, he thought my treatment to be fair. He does add that the resolution is partly aimed at a method by which churches who are already cutting CP giving may be kept partly in the SBC giving fold. I don’t find that to be a compelling reason for the actions suggested but, again, I give credit for good intentions.
I am the Director of Missions for the Consolation Baptist Association. We are the association that passed the resolution encouraging churches and association to consider providing a portion of their cooperative program contributions to state missions. For those who may ask why? 1. Because our economy is such that churches don’t have any extra finances to contribute to state missions. 2. Our state conventions are in dire distress with the passing of the Great Commission Giving. 3. Since a few of our churches have already voted to decrease their CP contributions and some will visit this item during next year’s… Read more »
Joe, why not just encourage greater sacrifice and CP giving? This just seems like a monumentally bad idea.
Dan if you would have read the article closly you will find that there is no extra moneys in our areas. If there was, I would ask fopr more associaiton contributions. Our churches need help. Small and rural churches are not on the present unelected and elected leaders’ radar. Some many talk about NAMB and IMB and have no idea of the need in these areas. It like an army that is gunho to go do battles in a far or foriegn country and leaving its bases open for the enemy to attack. I am a strong beleiver in the… Read more »
Joe, I think you say what many feel. The woes of the CP cannot be laid at the feet of the typical, small, neighborhood SBC church which gives a greater portion of their funds to the CP than the typical mega-church. The “Big Boys” introduced a concept GCG into the mix that has divided our Convention. NAMB is following a similar path. They call it by various names like “strategic, Great Commission, etc.” but the result is we have distanced ourselves from our roots. I think it is a bit unfair to simply say to the small and rural churches,… Read more »
Well, this has been very interesting to me. I had thought to apply to shorter University (in view of the fact that I have the following degrees: B.S. Ed. Lincoln U, Mo. ’67, M.A. Morehead State U., Ky. ’71, 18 hrs toward a Ph.D. in History {6 at the Univ. of South Carolina and 12 at Columbia Univ where I wrote a prospectus for a doctoral dissertation in Black History}, M.Div., D.Min. SEBTS ’74, ’76, and M.A. in Counseling, Liberty U. ’88, but it required a statement on Calvinism which I took to be a “Don’t bother applying, if you… Read more »
I carefully submit this thought… Could it be that associations, state conventions or mission agencies too often see themselves as the top part of some kind of pyramid funding system? You know, the kind of system that benefits financially from more people who sign up for the ‘business’ by sending a small percentage on to the one who ‘signed’ them up? At first they work really hard at all they do… over time they get soft and lazy but still expect everyone who ‘buys’ in to support their new lifestyle. Sure, they will deny this, but watch and listen to… Read more »
“The Church exist simply and solely to deliver the message, to deliver it to all men. The expansive movement, therefore, is not accidental or occasional, but permanent and essential. Only as the banners move forward does the army remain in discipline. It can know nothing of barracks or of winter quarters, for its purpose is to move on, and always on, until the message is delivered to all nations and the Evangel (proclaiming of truth) is the common property of humanity. From this it follows that whenever, or if ever, or even so far as, the (church) forgets its functions,… Read more »
Brother Joe-DOM Thank you and your association for working together to further the Kingdom of Christ! It is obvious you are not pleased with the GCR and its ramifications, however do you really want to be the DOM who led in the destruction of fellowship we have enjoyed as SB? Everyone is being affected by the economy, direct giving, and discouragement of all sorts, but this is not the time to give in to selfish motives even if it is for a good cause like the GBC! Remember its not about your town or my town, we have gospel witnesses… Read more »
Johnny I am proud of my association. I ask you the following questions. Have you contacted those that were on the GRG committee and accused them of destroying the SB fellowship? Do you beleive that souls in other countries are more important than the souls in your own community? Do you think it is wrong for establish churches in the South to receive training and ministry from the stae convention but it is ok for churches in the North or West? Do you really know what the responsibility and focus should be of an associaitonal missionary or is it just… Read more »
Joe, You do realize that many who disagree with you pastor small, rural churches? That’s where I’ve spent most of my time (though not as pastor, for the most part), and while my current church isn’t rural, per se, it’s still a small, struggling church with very limited resources. But we have a strong association here and churches help out other churches however we can. I imagine the task is more difficult for the small, struggling church in parts of the country where there is as yet no strong Baptist association. As much as we are struggling, I do not… Read more »
we have a strong asociaition, however, the economy here is very weak. We have had a lot of business to either move to another country or closed all together. Look, you alrerady have your outlook, there is nothing can be said tha twould cause you to see the situation any different. Maybe if the mega-church pastors that run the convention would consider contributing what most of the small and rural churches contribute percentage wise things may be different. But to hold these guys to the same standard as others could be religious political suicide for some who bloggers. I do… Read more »
Is the problem really disenfranchisement, or is the problem that people don’t listen to me as much as I want them to? The two are not the same, and while one could be a structural issue, the other could be a sin issue. But as I mentioned, there are many of us struggling small church pastors, also located in economically struggling areas, who see the moves being made by NAMB and are encouraged. This is not a matter of megachurch pastors pushing their will on the smaller churches, this is a matter of the SBC approaching an issue and hitting… Read more »
Here is where the conflicts always come down: One group that says “Is this really the issue worth dividing the convention over?” and another that says something like “It is the straw that broke the camel’s back for us.” This is why the SBC will probably not ever see another hard fracture, but will instead see moments like this and have churches trickle away here and there—Chris sees small church pastors that are supportive of the NAMB changes. I’m in a small, rural church and almost none of the pastors around me are supportive. So, we can go back and… Read more »
Johnny….Answer questions below-thx I am proud of my association. I ask you the following questions. Have you contacted those that were on the GRG committee and accused them of destroying the SB fellowship? (NO-agree everything was not done perfectly)Do you beleive that souls in other countries are more important than the souls in your own community?(NO-but we have 100 churches in a 30 minute ride in upstate SC) Do you think it is wrong for establish churches in the South to receive training and ministry from the stae convention but it is ok for churches in the North or West?(I… Read more »
Johnny, what you do not seem to understanhd is that associaiton are formed by churches. When an associaiton makes a decision it is the decision of the majority of churches. You seem to think that I tell our churches what to think and how to vote. I only wrote the article after our adminstrative committee asked me to do so after they discussed the issue for a few weeks. I do agree with everything in the article. I did tell some on the GCG committee how I felt and several of our leading pastors and I went to Orlando to… Read more »
I hate it that in copying my blog Dave ended up with long paragraphs that are so hard to follow. Joe and I disagree on solutions here. I would reiterate and add: 1. The decline in the CP percentage given by churches is not just a megachurch thing. Churches of all sized and locations have decreased their CP giving over the past decades, though the megas as a category give lower percentages. Johnny Hunt’s mega here in GA is the largest CP giver in the state and dollars still pay the bills, not percentages. 2. Small, rural church pastors who… Read more »
Generally speaking, the days of big giving by Southern Baptists could well be a thing of the past. The reasons are threefold, namely, 1. the removal of employment for the masses of Baptists as in NC. Such removal involves furniture, textiles, and tobacco. The first two areas of employment have been moved to South of the Border or overseas. Tobacco, for the most part, has been removed by health concerns. Moving the jobs overseas is a means to lessen the costs of production and to break not only any unionizing efforts, but also to void the protections that the American… Read more »