I was tempted to post this as an anonymous guest blogger, but I figured I’d put it out there under my own name. I was inspired by the comment made by Eddie on Saturday night on the “Golden Age of NAMB” post. You can find it. It cut me to the heart, for two reasons. First, a brother in Christ is in pain, hurting, in despair. Second, it brought back some memories of where I was last fall, when I felt everything Eddie said.
I’ve never really contemplated suicide, but I’ve gone through times when I would have welcomed death. I wish that feeling came from a place of noble passion like Paul’s statement, “For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.” My wish for death came from a very different place. It has come from a place of loneliness, dissatisfaction, pain, hurt and disappointment.
And from the fact that I had no one to talk to about it, that by and large I have had to bear this burden alone.
You see, I’m SuperDave the Wonder Pastor. Pretty much every relationship I have is one that demands more of me than it gives back to me. As a pastor, I’m required to love the unlovely, return good for evil, deal with other people’s problems even when I feel like crying. I don’t want to sound like I’m whining. A lot of this is just basic Christianity. Loving your enemy. Returning good for evil. Rejoicing always.
And most of the time, I consider myself fortunate to have a job that matters. I get to stand in front of God’s people and proclaim God’s word. I get to proclaim the life-changing gospel of Jesus Christ and help people grow in faith. I get people coming up to me and telling me how much my message helped them. I see victories and changes and receive blessings.
But then, the dark moments come – and often they blindside me. I get worn out. Conflict arises in the church. Someone stabs me in the back. And I want to cry, and to cry out. I lay in bed at night wishing for sleep but my mind is racing with anger, with despair, with the desire to run away and hide.
See, when you are SuperDave the Wonder Pastor, you cannot admit your weakness to your people. People seem to have a real need to honor their spiritual leaders – perhaps in an unhealthy way, but it is a real need nonetheless. People don’t always realize how much pressure there is when you have to always be “on”, to never let your guard down or to show your flaws. It’s not that I try to fool my people into thinking that I am better than they are, or that I have superior spiritual DNA. Actually, I work pretty hard to let them know that this is not true. I try to be real, to tell stories of my failures and sins (not too specific, but honest). But no matter how much I try to convince people that I am just Dave, I still find myself donning the superhero suit and becoming SuperDave the Wonder Pastor.
That is a lot of pressure.
I can handle it when I keep my spiritual passion strong. When I say that Jesus is my strength, that is not a cliche. Not at all. My Savior enables me to deal with the pressure. My relationship with him is the one in which I receive, am strengthened and blessed. With the resources of God’s grace, I plod along most of the time.
But then the bottom falls out. Where do I turn? I can’t talk to people in my church because I need to maintain my pastoral veneer. In Cedar Rapids, I had some very close pastor friends I could talk things over with and pray with, but I’ve not found that here quite yet. Sometimes, I can talk things over with my wife and that really helps. But sometimes, that doesn’t work either. And what about those situations in which the pastor and his wife are not getting along, when there is stress and tension in the marriage? Then, things really get extreme.
I believe three things, my pastor friends.
1) Almost all of us who are in ministry know this feeling of darkness and despair firsthand. SuperDave the Wonder Pastor has feet of clay and a heart that betrays the noble purposes of God. When you are in a responsible position, a visible and venerable place, there will come a time when your strength will flag, your courage will fail and you will find yourself laying in a corner in a fetal position begging God to take you home.
2) Most of us never talk about this to anyone. It is a secret pain.
3) We need to be a resource to one another when this happens. Pastors are in a unique position to help pastors.
Here are some perspectives I have on the problem and on the solution.
1) When I’m in despair, I don’t need a sermon.
I know what I need to know. I’ve preached it. I don’t need you to preach it to me. Job’s friends were the greatest men who ever lived right up until the point at which they opened their mouths and started pouring the fertilizer of their platitudes on Job.
Up until that moment, they had done exactly what they needed to do. They communicated two messages by sitting by him. I am here for you. I’m not going away. You, my friend, will not be alone in this time.
When a friend is hurting, they usually don’t need your advice. They just need you to be there and to care.
2) Reject Pastoral Oneupsmanship.
When I pastored in Virginia, we had regular associational pastors meetings that rotated from church to church. Every church had a statistics board to the side of the pulpit which reported attendance and offerings for the week – the SBC-approved statistical tote board! One Monday, when they were coming to my church, I changed 129 (our attendance) to 912. I changed the offering numbers around. Then I sat back and watched. No one said a word. Finally, when the meeting was over, I said, “Wow, how did those numbers get switched?” and I put them back. We had a good laugh and several admitted that they had seen the board and wondered about it.
I witnessed a blog argument a few years back in which one well-known blogger (and large church pastor) discredited another’s position because he was only the pastor of a small church. We are so competitive.
Years ago, when I was an associate pastor, I attended an associational meeting with the other associate pastor from our church. Some good things were happening at FBC, and Dan shared one of them. He wasn’t trying to be obnoxious, but the man across the table (and pastor of the host church) topped what Dan said. “We baptized five people.” “We baptized eight.” “We have a couple of young men going into the ministry.” “We have 5.” Whatever Dan said, the other pastor topped. I could see his frustration growing as this conversation went on.
Finally, Dan looked across the table at him and said, “Last Sunday night, we had some lady mud-wrestlers perform in our worship service.” The other pastor’s mouth just hung open. He had no way to top that one.
When we engage in pastoral bragging, we tend to create an environment in which it is almost impossible for the pastor who is in despair to share his heart.
Be very careful about tooting your own horn. You may be drowning out your brother’s cry for help.
3) Nurture your marriage.
Your wife can and should be your greatest source of strength. Honestly, I don’t know how Paul and other single servants of God did it. But the very stress and pressure that puts us in despair also sometimes puts a strain on our marriages. Being a pastor is a tough job. Being a pastor’s wife may sometimes be even more difficult.
Hariette posted an article some months ago about how to bless your pastor’s wife. I was shocked at the responses of a couple of women who commented on that post, saying that pastor’s wives are no different than anyone else and should stop whining. Wow. That is some industrial strength ignorance. My wife is under scrutiny in a way most other church women simply are not. It is a constant pressure on her and a burden she has to bear.
Pastors, we need to invest in our marriages. John Piper wisely took a few months off recently to reconnect with his wife and to stave off problems. Most of us wait until the problem is serious. A pastor with problems on the home front is destined for a date with despair.
4) Nurture some friendships outside the church.
You need some close friends that are not in your church, men you can go to and talk honestly with. Other pastors. Christian friends. People you can trust and be open and honest with.
I think that many pastors are by nature loners. I know I am. But the most horrible part of these times of darkness is that sense that we are all alone, that there is no one to talk to, no one who will listen. The greatest despair comes from that feeling of isolation.
5) Strengthen yourself in the Lord
It is not a cliche. The ultimate healer is not counseling or friends or a vacation. The ultimate help is Christ.
In 1 Samuel 30, David returned from battle to find his village ransacked and his family and those of his “mighty men” kidnapped. Everyone was devastated and they did the only thing they knew how to do. They turned on David, blamed him and were considering killing him. Verse 6 says, “David found strength in the Lord.”
In 1994, I was under great stress in a ministry that seemed to be falling apart. I couldn’t handle it one day, so I took a Bible and went walking. Two hours later, I returned to the church. Nothing had changed except my attitude. I had strengthened myself in the Lord and I was ready to meet the challenge.
The Lord is my strength, my shield and my fortress.
A Final Word
SBC Voices is a place to discuss theology, politics and denominational affairs. But we can also be a community. Eddie’s words of despair moved me. Right now, things are kind of stressful at my church. What’s new? I’m in a better place than I was last fall, but things are still hard. I felt Eddie’s pain because I had been there.
Others expressed the same thing.
I am no expert counselor, but I have two ears and I am willing to listen. When you reach this place of darkness in your own life and ministry, reach out. Talk to me. Or to someone else here. None of us here are superheroes.
We are brothers.
What do we do when the dark night falls?
Just for the record, much of what I say in this post is from the perspective of what IS, not what ought to be. I hope you understand this.
Dave, the “what is, not what ought to be” is our problem: we can’t talk about what is without sometimes being berated for not being what ought to be.
Amen.
And sisters………….
Romans 8:28-39
Thank you, Katie. You are absolutely right.
I was sort of thinking of pastors here, but I had not intent to imply that women don’t feel these things as well.
We are all in this together.
Dave,
Oh nay, nay. I should have explained a bit better. My apologies. It is not my intention to take away from the unique challenges Pastors face, but to affirm, that we women also pray for you and support you in whatever may come. I can only hear you and lift you to Savior and I take joy in doing so.
From Martin Luther: “I am yours, SAVE ME”.
God Bless you Dave.
You too, Katie.
This was really good.
All of us bring our work home. One day my wife and I were going to Bush Gardens and talking about the church. We had lost a secretary and 2 deacons in the last week to a disagreement (of course, I was right and they were wrong, lol) so it was a stressful time. My wife turned to me and asked seriously, “Did you see that sign?” I thot she was saying I missed the turn off. I must have looked angry or bewildered or something. “It was the sign that said ‘The Point of No Return'” She was adamant that we could not talk about anything church related for the rest of the day riding every other stomach turning roller coaster Busch Gardens in Tampa had. Having a wife like that helps me thru some dark times.
That was a fantastic story!
Appreciate this, Dave, even though I’m not a pastor (yet?).
Mark, I’m sure that between the Midwest and out here in Redneck Rural, we can find you a pulpit 🙂
Beautiful words. Thanks so much.
God bless you, DAVID, forever and ever.
Dave, that is a great article. By far for me, the “pastoral one upmanship” idea struck a nerve. I’ve been fortunate to be on the upper tier, even once the top of the “leader board.” I’ve also been near the bottom. I’ve never liked the idea at either end.
When at the top, pride became a problem. When near the bottom, despair became a problem. A performance-based model may work in some vocations, but it is like a plague to pastors.
I’ve always had a little bit of success in life and I have a varied background including time on a nuclear submarine spending 3 months at a time underwater. I can perform when I need to.
The problem is: no matter how much one gives as a pastor it will never be enough. Climbing the ladder of ministry one discovers it is leaning against the wrong wall. Oddly enough, success in the ministry leads as quickly to despair as failure (see Elijah, 1Kngs 18-19).
I don’t really know the answer to “pastoral one upmanship.” Some churches grow, some don’t. I doubt very seriously if real growth has much to do with the man on the stage.
We seem to worship mega-church pastors and celebrity preachers. This is at the core of many discussions on this blog (though sometimes in subtle ways). If we could find a way to really do “Kingdom work” instead of “church work” that might help.
I think the only solution may be focusing more on local Associations instead of the denomination. We need to consider our ministry as “failing” if all of our brothers are not succeeding. We should ardently reject a “leader-board mentality.” I say this as a church doing very well at present so I don’t think it is sour grapes.
We believers are on the same ship. We celebrate on the brow to our on hurt if we fail to neglect a huge leak in the back of the ship. The Titanic sunk with a series of realtively small gashed, not one immense blow.
I want to do better at “Kingdom Work.” I still want to do all I can in my church, but not without deep regard for others God has called and gifted.
I wish I had more of the answers, but I believe you hit close to the bulls-eye with the “one upmanship” thing.
Good post, Dave. For general application, not personally to you, perhaps a paragraph should be added that legitimizes seeking medical help for depression. It is a medical issue. Of course, the pastor cannot make that known without being seen as damaged goods but one may not be able to spiritualize oneself out of clinical depression. Every community I’ve ever served in had some kind of pastor suicide story.
Again, I’m not making this personal to you. I appreciate your openness, but while you may be able to take a couple of hours and adjust your attitude, others may have a more serious clinical depression.
BTW, John Piper can take a few months off. Johnny Hunt can take every July off and add six months to that occasionally. Most of us get a month off if we get fired or quit.
Again, good post.
You are right on both of the things you have said here.
1) There is a real medical issue with depression. Where is the cut-off between the spiritual issue of discouragement and medical issue of depression. don’t know that one.
I think our world tends to over-diagnose and over-medicate for spiritual issues. On the other hand, we pastors tend to resist seeking medical help when it is needed.
2) I almost put something in about Piper being in a position that most of us are not in, where he can take six months off and go on as normal.
I think there is a particular stigma about clinical depression. The Senior pastor of the church I go to went to Masters Seminary out in California and will tell you, just as MacArthur does, that psychotropic drugs are not for a believer because (being slightly facitious) clincial depression is not a real illness. Suck it up. You’re not reading the Bible enough or praying hard enough.
I’m not sure what could be done, but I think it’s important for peope to know that clinical depression is not a spiritual issue. To tell someone suffering with that to just trust God or that if they had more faith they wouldn’t have this problem is just cruel.
MacArthur does surprise me a bit here… b/c we have to realize that our body and spirits are connected. Activity in the brain does affect our personality, actions, and feelings and sometimes without a specific emotional cause–take diseases like Alzheimer’s for example.
Add to this: if we believe in total depravity, then we believe that every aspect of our being is corrupted by sin–including things like our DNA and brain chemistry.
Sometimes neurons get crossed, serotonin goes haywire, things get wacky, and it’s not b/c of our bible reading, prayer life, church attendance, or the way we view God.
My mother, a devout Christian, came within minutes of blowing her brains out had I not happened to come home early from school back when I was in high school.
She had gotten to the point without medical intervention that ending her life was the only option available to her. It took years, but they finally recognized the chemical imbalance, corrected it, and now she functions as a productive person in society. However, up until they discovered the chemical imbalance, a pastor whom she sought out for guidance and assistance told her that she wasn’t giving it all to God and caused her to doubt herself and her salvation. His failure to recognize that it wasn’t spiritual but medical almost killed her. I thank God that for some reason, I wanted to head to my house rather than to my girlfriend’s house.
However, I also notice that many (and I mean an overwhelming majority) of pastors and ministers who do counseling sessions are woefully ignorant of the symptoms of clinical depression and chemical imbalances that need to dealt with by trained medical professionals and not simply just by making them reevaluate their salvation. For some reason, many think that its wrong to refer them to a medical doctor if simple counseling doesn’t work.
Joe
It may suprise you that I am in 100% agreement with you. This us also the reason I truly don’t understand why SWBTS has done away with the psychology and counciling degree that leads to state licensure. As someone who has used graduates of that program, and found them invaluable ( and in my insurance program)
We also used SWBTS graduates when a child in one of my kids school committed suicide.
Instead we are removing these future licensed Christian counsellors from the system leaving only counsellors trained by state schools from a non Christian perspective.
Not to mention that the Counselling degree had one of the largest enrollments at southwestern.
Jim,
Were graduates of that program able to prescribe medication? I’m asking because I, perhaps, mistakenly thought you had to be a doctor or a nurse practicioner to prescribe stuff. Like a counselor could not but a pshychiatrist could. However, it could easily be that I’m wrong and you seem to be in a position to know.
The graduates from SWBTS were not able to prescribe medication but any practicing therapist worth their salt partners with a medical doctor with extensive training in the field. The therapists usually know their limits and will refer to the MD when cases become, well, medical. It’s also not uncommon for a person entering into therapy to meet with the MD in addition to the counselor in order to receive an evaluation and possibly blood work depending on the family history of the patient.
This set up allows for counseling and therapy without flooding the medical doctor’s plate.
Oh, and just to add, I agree that we’re too quick to call something “depression” and medicate it. I don’t think that meds should be the first, second, or even third thing you try to fix the issue because it may not be due to a chemical imbalance in the nogin. My comment was more in reference to the people, like John MacArthur, who seem to have the idea that it’s always spiritual and a Christian should never use medication for it.
No, they are(or were) state licensed psychologists. One must go to med school to prescribe.
Thanks for being transparent Dave, it’s helpful to those of us who are younger and struggling.
I guess its silly that I sat beside you at lunch week after week and held this kind of thing in. That’s just the way it goes. Even friends sometimes don’t share the real stuff.
I would be curious to see just how many of us wrestle with the despair.
And recognize that it’s not the way we should feel or even want to feel. It’s just what’s there. And it’s hard to put those feelings out there—to anyone.
Doug, those feelings are real and they are universal . . . no one gets through this life without having a time where they encounter depression and anxiety, sometimes ‘situational’, not always.
When it happens, all people feel that sense of dread and fear because of the intensity of that which they don’t understand and no one else can see . . . if we are honest, and we have lived long enough, we can all own to experiencing these trials.
But NO ONE should ever have to suffer alone, or feel that they have no one to talk to. That is so very sad, and yet, for so many, it is the case.
People don’t understand . . . not when it hits them hard, or it hits someone in their family . . . we have to all work to change that.
I’ve seen statements here and there about the stress that pastors are under, the feelings of loneliness, and the desire to quit. Sometimes the response by non-pastors is along the lines of “quit whining, your stress is no different than in other jobs.”
Uh… yes it is. If we take seriously the fact that we are teachers and caretakers, we realize we face a stricter judgment for our words (James 3:1) and accountability for our flock (Hebrews 13:17). I’ve worked retail, at various libraries, and at a children’s home. When a customer came up and complained about an item in the store, it did not phase me like hearing the burdens of people under my charge at church who struggle with their marriage, with sexual issues, with lying and gossiping, and with a general rejection of the Word.
A “plurality of elders” in the local church often gets bashed as non-baptist, too reformed, or too presbyterian, but I think part of it is God’s provision of a network of equals who share the burdens, know the struggles, and can lift each other up in times of struggle.
I know with my own story–I’ve had stressful experiences at every church, but did have one that almost killed me and almost made me walk away from the ministry (and almost from church). It was a period of isolation with no nearby family or friends, and criticism after criticism mixed with other things. I’ve always had struggles with depression, but this sent me deeper than I’ve ever been, and very much like Dave was just ready for death to take me (though in the greatest moments of despair, I didn’t even know if that meant heaven, hell, or nothing). Part of me wanted out of that situation so much, yet I had only been there a handful of months and another part of me told me I needed to stay b/c that was where God had put me and this stuff was happening for a reason. That internal battle didn’t help. When they finally booted me, I was suddenly jobless and homeless (parsonage), but it was also the happiest I had been in months.
During the struggles there I attempted to express the fact that I’m human too with my own struggles and I need to be lifted up and built up as well. To which an old lady, between criticisms, said: “Pastors can’t have issues of their own, because if they have struggles they can’t help us with our struggles.” It wasn’t simply the feeling that I had to be “super pastor,” I was actually told I had to be super pastor.
Not to mention I finally broke down a year later, sick of a lot of things talked to my doctor, got an anti-depressant–which was able to help me cut through the clutter and refocus. It’s been a year since the doctor took me off of them, and it’s also been a year without the return of a major depressive episode (for me, the Dr. thinks it was a combination of circumstance and bio-chemical wackiness). Sometimes, when necessary, a pill does help.
And that single part Dave mentions–that’s me, and I can tell you even now in a much much much much better situation, there are still certain long days where it sucks having to go home to an empty house. Some well-meaning married friends say, “Get a dog.” I have a dog. He jumps in my lap, licks me in my face, and rolls onto his back for a belly rub. When I ask him, “When are you going to scratch my belly for a change?” he simply cocks his head and wags his tail–much the way he responds whenever I say anything he doesn’t understand. Yeah a dog will keep you busy and is better than nothing, but there’s a reason why when God paraded all the animals in front of Adam he concluded with, “It’s not good for the man to be alone.” A dog is not a person–he’s a dog. (Some of my youth, btw, keep telling me they’re going to start a dating site for single pastors.) 🙂
But yeah–sometimes we need a break, sometimes we need an afternoon without a call, and sometimes we just need a hug and the words “I’m praying for you.”
Thank you.
I have no idea what started this particular spiral, but I suspect it is ministry stuff. I look around me and see that our work is going nowhere. I recentlytook a trip to an impoverished and broken nation, worked for 2 weeks, and saw no fruit; this was after another brother went to the same place (with the same people) and led 25 to Christ.
The church we started is stuck at about 3 attendees. The projects we had for work have sputtered and stumbled. Chances to serve in a variety of ways within our organization have gone to others, and I cannot help but think it is because of my ineffectiveness. My wife is gifted in 1,000 ways, and yearns to use her gifts for Him, but my futility and failure taint her availability and she is overlooked.
I’ve looked back over things and realized that I have a tendency to come up small at crunch time. It goes back decades. I almost do a good job, I almost do my best, I almost make the right decision. Almost, almost, almost… Even in this, I can almost climb out of my hole, but not quite.
And to top it off, I have no where to go. I’d be blacklisted if my colleagues found out (some of whom stop by this site). My wife would suffer the consequences. My dearest friend and pastor died a few months ago, leaving me with no one. I have no local friends who know me outside of ministry.
I know I’m not a bad father, nor a terrible husband. I know He loves me, and has forgiven me for everything. I just wish -desperately – that I could be something for Him. I wish I could do more, say more, work better, simply BE more for Him. I wish my smallness of character did not limit my wife. I know He can use everyone, but I’m just convinced these days that He will; I can’t help but think that’s my fault, not His.
Someone wrote that the neighborhood bar has become, in many ways, what the church has failed to be. It is place where a local can walk in and admit just about anything. His mates will buy him a drink, will listen, and will cheer him up. Not in churches, though, and not for the pastor/leader/teacher.
Thank you, all of you, for being my brothers and sisters. Knowing you are here….well, it both breaks my heart and heals it.
Thanks for sharing. When someone has a broken leg or some other physical problem, they go to a doctor. But when it’s something you can’t see or put in a cast, there seems to be a hesitation to seek professional help. And with the enormous pressure most pastors work under, it can be seen as a sign of weakness by those with small minds. I pray that your church is full of loving and caring members. But I’ve never been in one of those. There are always a few that make it hard for a pastor to be real. May God continue to care for and bless you.
You guys have a lot of work problems that greatly contribute to being depressed whether clinical or not. Everybody thinks they are your Boss, and your wife’s Boss, and your children’s Boss. You have no free time – none to sit back and relax or do private things with your wife and family. You can compete with each other like one airline pilot for one company competes with another – smoother , better ride etc. but you can’t let them get you to brake the rules of decency by ordering, or demanding or as the old ladies like to do threaten your job. And they do it because they can and can get away with it. ” Free at last – Free at last ” you finish it. The only pastor in my son’s town to really be a friend , and let him in the pulpit was a black Baptist preacher and he did it because he wasn’t afraid of his people and he knew the guy needed a friend. I’ll bust my chops for that guy. Pilots are private guys also but there are always two in the ” Pulpit ” and we have work rules – a contract to let us know when we are meeting or exceeding our requirements and common sense takes precedence always. Stop beating each other up ! Someone ( pastor and family ) may not have enough food to eat and that should bother the living hell right out of you.
By the way,
I personally believe that every church, regardless of size, needs to give their pastor a sabbatical for a couple of weeks each summer if they want to do it yearly or for a couple of months if they do it every three to five years.
I have come to believe that pastors work eighty plus hours a week and sacrifice their own lives and relationships so they can be available for members and their issues.
I have no problem with my pastor taking July off. In fact, I applaud our church for doing that.
I think that the pastor needs to be able to shut it all down, leave the cellphone with an associate and just leave and know the paycheck will still be in the mail. Then he can reconnect with the wife, kids, and other relationships. He can fishing, hiking, camping, traveling, or, like my pastor, work on his Th.D.
He laughed when I said, you’re supposed to be on v-a-c-a-t-i-o-n, not working. So now I have to take him fishing this summer or he’s going to make me guest teach Adult 9 this fall…
You wanna come join my church?
You allow moderates?
Dave will take anyone that comes to church in a Yankees hat.
Yep, but if you just listened to me for a few weeks, you’d be a card-carrying, CR-loving, flag-waving conservative!
Sorry.
I’m going to put my 20 years of medical experience hat on now. Clinical depression is BIOLOGICAL IN NATURE. It is NOT the result of lazy thinking, or ungodly living, though those actions can make it worse.
I cannot account for why some people are plagued with Clinical Depression any more than I can account for migraine headaches. They are part of the human condition.
I hate to see anyone loading up more guilt on their plates over a biological action that cannot be self-controlled.
Almost everyone has times when they feel depressed. Just low for no apparent reason, or they are having a natural response to the challenges life throws at us. This is a normal part of being a human being. But it is distinctly different from clinical depression and it should be addressed as a medical treatment, not a moral failure.
However, I recommend that clinical depression be treated by a Godly physician, and not the run-of-the-mill family practitioner. Some of the pharmaceuticals have untoward results, to include suicide.
I know that John Piper’s church has a weekly self-evaluation tool that is used by the Pastoral staff to gauge their activities, both spiritual and healthful. It might be helpful. I believe it is posted on the DG website.
I’m so grateful to all of you who toil among us and for us (even if I don’t always agree with you), I know that you are not appreciated as much as you should be.
I commit myself to offering more prayer for you.
John Piper on Anti-depressants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9eaC-2quwA
Dave,
Good, needed post. Eddie, praying for you. Don’t we all need to pray more for each other? We never know what the other is going through.
I’d also add, to everyone in general, don’t take yourself too seriously. Take your ministry seriously, but learn to laugh at yourself. Also, find some kind of activity you enjoy that has nothing to do with your ministry. A little regular time fishing can be much cheaper, and maybe more helpful, than psychiatrist bills.
David R. Brumbelow
One of these days, I’m going to put up a post, “Share the Most Embarrassing Experience of Your Ministry.” I’ve got about half a dozen or so.
Dave, At the 2nd funeral I ever preached, I was about to preach the funeral, but I was to precede the coffin from the viewing area to the funeral area in the funeral home. So, I’m walking in front of the coffin, and I notice a water fountain. Nobody is around, but me and the 2 funeral home workers. I try to get a drink of water, but the guy leading the coffin has his back to me; so, he bumps into me. Praise the Lord that the coffin didn’t tip over or anything. I was very embarassed though!
Also, has anyone else had church members in the hospital that decided to show you what they had surgery on; or what was hurt? I imagine this is common place in ministry? Wish someone would have warned me!
The showing of the surgery scar has happened to me before too. It isn’t bad as long as the surgery is in an acceptable area I suppose. Haven’t had any inappropriate ones yet, PTL.
My strangest hospital visit so far (as a pastor anyway) was a year or two ago when I got a call about a lady who was in a coma at the local hospital here. Her friend seemed to think she had visited our church when she came to town, but I had never seen the woman before. To make matters more interesting, her friend was a devout Catholic and kept referring to me as “father.” I tried to make the best of it and just be there for them as I could. I ended up checking back in two or three times before the lady passed away.
After I had been called in to a couple of situations with a person who is near-death that I have never met before simply because they listed their religion as Baptist in their file; I realized that most people here are familiar with the Catholic tradition of “last rites” and do not realize that Baptists don’t have a similar thing.
Dave, Jared, Jeff,
Interesting comments. I’ll look forward to hearing you all elaborate one of these days.
Jeff,
Baptists do have “Last Rites.” Our Last Rites are usually called the Roman Road Plan of Salvation :-). Or it could be shortened to, “The most important thing in life is to know Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Jesus died for our sins and rose again. Would you like to trust Him today as your Savior?”
David R. Brumbelow
While I don’t want to put a smiley icon next to this, please understand that it is said with at least a little humor. Perhaps I should have been clearer about the “last rites” comment as these people have been in a coma and unable to converse (I don’t have any other idea why they always wait until then to call me). I could share the Romans Road with them but they would be unable to pray the “sinner’s prayer” afterward. Would that still count?
Jeff,
I in no way meant to minimize the situation, and did not know the details. But since it is brought up, one thing I have often done is speak to someone, or pray with someone who cannot respond, as though they are hearing and understanding everything I say. Sometimes they can.
David R. Brumbelow
David,
I figured as much which is why I wanted to be sure and say that my response wasn’t an angry one. I heard pretty much the same thing that you just said, so that is more or less how I treated the situation.
The first time this happened to me was at the nursing home here in town. I had no idea that this woman was even there until after they called me. She had Alzheimer’s and the family had stopped visiting by and large many years before. Most of them didn’t come to her funeral either. I was just upset that I had never heard about her before so I could have visited with her sooner, instead of only at the end.
JEFF, God bless you for your compassion for that woman, and for your patience with her friend.
In coming to her, and praying, you did as the ancient Christians would have done, as spoken of in the Book of James, chapter 5:
“14
Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,
15
and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.”
I know that ministers and pastors visit the sick and pray with them and their families. These visits have always been done since the beginning of Christianity . . .
actually, the very first hospitals were Christian and provided a place for the sick and the dying, where they could be brought and cared for, as this is close to the Heart of Our Lord, that the suffering and the dying should be treated with His compassion.
The ‘oil’ in the time that the Bible records, was ‘medicinal’ and you will remember that the Good Samaritan poured oil on the wounds of the man left for dead, and bound his wounds up, and took him to a place where he could be cared for.
Two weeks vacation is not enough time to get hither and yon and hither again. On 24,000 / year with a family which is what the replacement guy is rumored to be getting you can’t fun a weeks vacation except at your parents. They say there are 40,000 churches which equals at least 40,000 pastors. $5.00 / mo. from each would form an association and pay a pastor to be there well and a secretary to perform a lot of jobs for you. Work standards with proper thought could be set by pastors for certain pastors and everybody would have to get on board. You can’t fight, love or work when you don’t feel well. Provisions for a healthy work place and a written contract between the church that employs you and yourself would make it easier fore everyone and shut the mouth of the old busy body that stops by at dinner on Saturday evening to tell her woes which don’t amount to much particularly when she says she will get you fired if you don’t see her because she fell down again. Take care of your home fires then worry about someone else’s. You’re getting pushed around.
One of the things that struck me the most at Real Life Ministries when we visited out there and in the couple of brief conversations I had with Jim Putman and other conversations with members of their staff (both the paid and volunteer) was the intentional transparentness that they fostered at all levels. It was almost scary at times to see, and a couple of the guys with me felt that some of them “overshared” at times. But I can’t help but think that it is a good antidote to many of the issues Dave is talking about. I have been able to build a couple of good relationships with people here in town who are solid believers that don’t attend our church and that has been a big help, but I think there is real value in developing a way that we can build those kinds of relationships with spiritually mature people in our own church as well.
When did you become “Super Dave, The Wonder Pastor”? I thought you were the lead singer of Topaz?
Love ya, even though I have always known you were flawed.
You know, Sabrina, that was a lot easier as a Youth pastor. I was a little more free to horse around and just be a doofus (not that this has ever changed). Sometimes I think back to those Lynx bus trips and the good times we had.
I’ve often thought I should have just stayed in youth ministry. Honestly, those were some of my favorite times.
Were you on the Lynx bus when Jimmy, Danny, Eddie and the others did the whoopie cushion Olympics? I laughed so hard that night in Gatlinburg that my stomach hurt.
I think I was there. Those trips were so much fun. I too get nostalgic and wish I could have “that” again. Truth be told, it’s the last time I felt home at church.
I have a story that goes along with this. My dad was in a time of real discouragement in his ministry. He was in a really deep funk. Fortunately, he had a pastor friend across town and they had lunch and dad spent most of the time pouring out his hurts, his anger and his pain.
His friend, John, finally said, “Lew, I heard a sermon recently that you need to hear. Honestly, it deals with exactly the situation you are in. You just have to listen to it.”
The last thing my dad wanted was to listen to a sermon. But later, John came by with the tape in hand. He smiled and handed it to my dad.
It was a sermon my dad had preached a few weeks earlier!
Dave, I have a few similar stories.
Early in ministry, when I in my early 20s, I called a pastor friend of mine, and I was whining about not being appreciated. I was a youth pastor at the time; and I was feeling unappreciated by the youth, youth parents, and church as a whole. After listening to me for a while, my friend said, “You didn’t enter the ministry to be appreciated.” I thought for a moment, and agreed. I return to this truth often.
Another story took place a few years later. I noticed one of my youth parents was very zealous; so, I asked him to meet with me for some Bible Study. We studied basic historical/grammatical hermeneutics together. After we finished, we broke the youth up into middle school and high school SS classes; he took the middle; and I took the high school. After about 3 months of this, he came to me weeping one evening, for he believed that God was calling him to the ministry. It was humbling for me, for, I can remember how shocked, amazed, and overjoyed I was whenever I knew I desired and was qualified for the ministry (called by God). As I spoke and prayed with this man, I was humbled to realize yet again, that what he was overjoyed about doing, was something that I had the privilege to do every day. I had taken the privilege of ministry for granted…
The struggles continue to this day. I would quit today if I wouldn’t find another ministry tomorrow! Onward Christian soldiers!
As many times as I have watched Super Dave Osborne crash and burn back in the day, that was the first picture that came to my mind when you used that moniker. Are there any similarities?
Mahalo Dave for your transparency and help. You put into words what I and many live through. May the Lord bless you noticeably for your honesty!
Everybody, May the Lord also lead you and every other pastor / minister to rid yourselves of the negative stimulus that surrounds you in your work so that you may all enjoy it even more.
Though I am an extremely important, good looking and ridiculously successful pastor with perfect hair, I often feel this pain as well. Just tell me that SuperDave doesn’t wear tights… because that might send the rest of us spiraling into despair.
I tracked down the IP address on this comment and the next one and when I get back to Sioux City, I will be having a long conversation with my son, Benjamin!
I thought maybe they were just made by the other guy in your picture. He is a troublemaker I hear.
Ben must be a teenager. They have been known to do stuff like this, being ‘works in progress’ don’t you know.
He’s 21.
But in his defense, his maturity has been
stuntedenhanced by beingforcedallowed to watch the Yankees. Had he been watching the Braves those years, he’d never be wise, mature, and have no idea what it means to win a World Series.Doug, to help you out, I edited this comment. It was clear you had a couple of typos, so I just set them straight for you.
So Ben’s a ‘late bloomer’. Relax. My son was, too. We shouldn’t have worried. He found his niche in the Coast Guard and ended teaching electronics, then writing electronics curriculum, then becoming a master instructor, and now teaches instructors, etc. etc.
Who knew? This is the kid whose teachers called me in cause they couldn’t figure out how he tested low in everything, but scored in the 99th percentile in science.
All I can say, is God is good.
Enjoy your son, DAVID.
(I thought what Ben did showed a promising creativity.)
would a LOVING God really make any of us suffer through you wearing tights?… Do you think Ghandi would wear tights?
Again, Ben, we will talk!
The only thing scarier that Dave in tights is Ghandi in tights.
But that’s another story…
Johnn Hunt I’ve heard has a place or places where pastors that have gotten trampled on and their families can go and get their head screwed back on right and catch their breath. They are overbooked I hear. If some of these funds we hear about were going to support that function it would be nice to know about – but I’ll bet it’s Hunt by himself. Things are in lousy shape out here and it’s alright to talk about – but no more band-aids lets do major surgery. Quit writing letters.
Jack, Hunt’s refuge ministry is called Timothy-Barnabas. http://www.timothybarnabas.org/
A lot of our Baptist Encampments allow a pastor or youth minister and family to spend a night or two there for free. Some larger churches have a cabin where a pastor can stay. A few pastors and laymen have a room or small motel-like room on their property were a pastor is welcome to stay for a couple of days. That is a great ministry. God bless those that do so.
David R. Brumbelow
Here is Spurgeon’s comment in his Morning Devotion for April 12 for Ps.22:14: “Deep depression of spirit is the most grievous of all trials; all besides is as nothing….Believer, come near the cross this morning, and humbly adore the King of glory as having once been brought far lower, in mental distress and inward anguish, than any one among us; and mark His fitness to become a faithful High Priest who can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities….Our drops of sorrow may well be forgotten in the oceans of His grief; but how high our love ought to rise!” Here we have the witness of one speaking from experience. Bloggers need to read he account of Spurgeon and the terrible incident at the great hall in which the church met while the Metropolitan Tabernacle was being built (if my memory is serving me correctly), when some wicked person yelled fire and caused a panic in which a number of people were killed. Spurgeon was thrown into such terrible depression that his deacons literally carried him to his carriage and to his home where he languished for several months. No doubt, a case of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). Stress is so much a part of our daily lives now that in a way I am surprised that people function as well as they do. In fact, many of our ministers and their families suffer from PTSD along with members in the congregation, due to the wild and turbulent times in which we live.
Some people need to be treated for the problem. One of the methods recently discovered (within the past 20 years or so) is Eye Desensitization Movement or EDM. I use it with one of my son’s members tht he had referred to me for counseling with very happy results. Bak then (2001), it was just beginning to become known. More recently EDM has become the number one treatment in VA hostpitals for PTSD suffered by Vets on the battlefields. A professional Psychologist who is a member of the church I attend and who is one of our elders and teaches psychology at a local community sollege told me h had heard that it was being used at a local VA hospital and that he had studets in his class asking him about it. I also referred a child to a female counselor trained in the technique for therapy for sexual abuse received in a orphanage. The adoption mother was very happy with the results. Any one interested in such treatment (which I think deprograms the nerve system of the stress inflicted upon it by the trauma – and that is just an educated guess not a scientiic fact) can google Eye Desensitization Movement, and they will find an institute in California established by the woman Psychologist who discovered the therapy. On that site one can find a list of trained counselors across the nation who can render the therapy. When I used the technique, I was not trained. I had simply read the author’s work and decided to try it with an exceedingly troublesome situation. It worked, and I was quite impressed. Still it took about five-six more years before began to really catch on in the counseling profession. Like everything else, it must be handled with a professional and trained counselor and checked and double checked to make sure that the intended result is what was and is desired…although I have not heard of adverse results (and that does not mean there are not any). We all need to take care with the therapies and methods, to act in a professional manner, that is, with objective and subjective traits of conduct that are commensurate with a caring professional dedicated to the helping of clients. I have been a professional counselor, one of the first 1000 Licensed Professional Counselors in North Carolina.