It is Saturday morning. You are sitting on the back deck of your home. You are drinking coffee, strong and black. You normally drink a lot of coffee because you like it. However, you have been drinking much more of it for the last three days. One reason is because you are not very hungry so you are drinking coffee just so you will not be sitting at the table with your family staring off into another world as they try to eat their meals. However, you have noticed that your wife and teenage children are not eating much either. In addition, the normal table talk that takes place during meal times around your home has become stale and forced. You also notice that your wife’s eyes reveal that she has, once again, been crying while preparing the meals that she normally takes such pride in providing for her husband and sons. Your family is in an emotional lockdown and you know the reason why. A tragedy has struck in your church family and it has nothing to do with a funeral. It is worse.
Tomorrow is Sunday. . . . And for the first time since you became pastor of the church, you wish Sunday wasn’t coming.
During your ministry as pastor of the local church to which God has assigned you, the church has grown. You have large crowds even though the town where you are is not very big. You have members in your church coming from three counties other than your own. God has blessed. Yet, you are thinking, “Tomorrow is Sunday. Every seat in the worship center will be full. There will be people standing up along the walls . . . but, they will not be there to hear me preach the gospel. They will be there to hear what I have to say about the events that have occurred since this past Wednesday night.”
This past Wednesday night a ten (10) year old child was brought to you by the Children’s Minister and an AWANA worker. The child had told the AWANA worker of experiencing sexual misconduct from a leading member of the church, the major financial contributor in the body, a leading member of the community, and an employer of many of the people living in the town.
You looked into the child’s eyes and you just knew in your gut she was telling the truth, but you also knew there were steps that must be taken now that would be scrutinized by knowledgeable people and by armchair quarterbacks as well. You knew that because this was not the first time you have had to deal with sexual abuse in the body of Christ, but it was the first time in this church.
After you had heard the child’s story from the AWANA worker, you did what you knew you had to do and this time, you were somewhat fortunate. The church you serve has over a dozen law enforcement personnel as regular members. You called a State Policeman in your church. The State Policeman called the State Police Sex Crimes Officer for your area. Next, you called the child’s mother and asked her to come to the church office. She got there before the Sex Crimes Officer arrived. You, along with your wife, the AWANA Worker and the Children’s Minister tell the child’s mother what had happened. She breaks down in tears. She just can’t believe that God would let this happen to her child. After she gains her composure, the Associate Pastor and his wife bring the child into your office to be with her mother.
When the mother embraces her child and the tears again begin to flow, every eye in the room fills with tears . . . except yours. You are becoming angry. You are angry with yourself that this has happened “on your watch.” You are angry that you never picked up on the fact that you had a sexual predator in the church leadership. You had done all the “right” things. All the guidelines were in place. Everyone who works with children in the church had had criminal background checks and they were on record, current and up to date. Every “i” had been dotted. Every “t” had been crossed. Nonetheless, here you are. Once again you are dealing with the carnage of having a sexual predator in a local church.
You leave your office and wait on the State Policeman and the Sex Crimes Officer out in the parking lot. No one still in the parking lot thinks anything of it when the cruiser pulls up, because the State Cop is a member of the church and the Sex Crimes Officer is in plain clothes. Law enforcement officers are constantly in and out of the church. Three of them work in AWANA. Two others are deacons. There is a running joke in the church that “no one would ever try to take the Sunday morning offering in this church, there are armed cops in every pew.” But this is not about a robbery. This is about a sex crime. In your heart, you wish someone had robbed the church and burned down the buildings rather than what has happened. Then reality strikes your soul like being slapped in the face with a dead cat. Someone has been robbed.
A child has been robbed of that which can never be replaced: Innocence, Trust, Laughter, and an untold number of other things that children should have and enjoy when ten years of age.
The State Police Sex Crimes Officer has called a State Licensed Social Worker to join him to interview the child. She arrives after most of the Wednesday night AWANA crowd has left.
Two other State Police Officers and the Chief Deputy of the Sheriff’s Department have arrived and are with you in your office, all three are members of the church. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer and the Social Worker use the Associate Pastor’s office to conduct the interview. The child’s mother is waiting in the reception area and your wife, the AWANA worker, and the Associate Pastor’s wife are with her.
The interview ends. The Social Worker tells the child’s mother that she believes the child’s testimony. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer comes into your office and tells you and the three cops the same. He tells the State Policemen an arrest of the church leader should be made. The Chief Deputy goes with them. An arrest is made. On Thursday morning the whole town knows what has taken place. The phones at the church offices ring continually. Your Administrative Assistant became so distraught due to the accusative tone of some of the calls you told her to go home. The phones continue to ring.
By Friday, you have called your insurance agent, the church attorney, and held a joint meeting with the deacons and trustees. The child and her mother are now at the grandparent’s home in another county. The church leader accused of a sex crime against a minor child is out of jail on bond. He is gathering his army of supporters.
Now, it is Sunday Morning. Sunday School is over. You were in your office praying alone during the Sunday School hour. You are about to walk into the worship center. It is packed, with standing room only. You walk in as the choir sings the church anthem, “Brethren, We Have Met To Worship.”
The time comes for you to take the pulpit. You do so and look out over the crowd. They are waiting. They are waiting for you to speak. What do you say?
What would you do? What would you do if you were in this local pastor’s shoes?
I’m actually too scared to comment…
That makes two of us. But…. I will say though that I have no idea what I would say…. and I think it is dangerous to try to can up a response to use in case a hypothetical comes true, Although a comparably a much, much lighter matter…. I can remember talking with fellow “preacher boys” in my school days in the security of a college atmosphere and without ever having been in the circumstance about how I would deal with a deacon who was causing division. Fast forward several years and add the reality of actually entered the ministry… Read more »
Having a plan (for many things) is important. The plan won’t fit all the issues, but it may (probably will) fit several of them. At least you will have a place to start and will have given it some though while things were calm.
First: ask the Sex Crimes Officer to be present if department rules allow. Have his official contact number in the bulletin and inform the congregation that if anyone else has a similar crime or even suspicion of one, that the officer needs to be contacted. Ask them not to contact him/her for third-hand rumors or to ask how the case is going, but only to report additional known incidents. Ask that any such be reported to him first, not to you–but if they would like for you to know, they are free to inform you as well. Second: call the… Read more »
“1. Control your anger.”
Doug Hibbard,
You are right as rain on this. I failed a couple of times on this one. Fell back to old methods. It made things complicated to say the least. Sinful conduct always does.
Here’s what we did. The deacons and I had created a task force to give guidance through this situation. We selected people with expertise in law enforcement, legal issues, public relations, and internal communication within the church. I prepared a sermon/statement in full manuscript form—highly unusual for me. The entire task force reviewed it and approved it. I delivered that statement. One thing: Because of the timing of ours, this took place on Wednesday, not Sunday. We tried to accomplish many things with the statement: 1. To encourage other victims to come forward. 2. To express our corporate grief and… Read more »
Bart, one thing that I have pondered over last few days because of CB’s article is would I need to encourage the victims to come forward or go a step further and offer a time and place for state police investigators and counselors to meet with parents and children involved in our children’s ministries. Do you have any thoughts?
In our county the law enforcement and social services people involved with child abuse have created a Children’s Advocacy Center as a sort of one-stop shop for victims. We had a representative from the CAC present at the Q&A and available afterwards. We did discover a number of other victims after we found the first one.
Thank you Bart for sharing that. I found it very insightful and helpful.
This seems to be a well thought out, healthy and serious approach.
Very mature and appropriate response Bart. And kudos to your lay leadership. We need more pastors and church leaders willing to face issues like this head on.
Bart,
You are right. Using a written statement which has been edited and re-edited by a predetermined team is the best way to make the first public statement as pastor of the church. And it is still not easy, is it? Referring to it in the future when questioned by media is also a wise thing.
I typed a response a few minutes ago, but Feedly ate is, so here goes again. Now, I’m not a preacher so I cannot fully wrap my mind around what all would be going on within the preacher’s head & heart at the time, but if I were suddenly called on (as an old dude) to lead the service, this is what I’m thinking. I’m assuming I can’t get CB Scott on the phone at the moment to ask HIM what to do…… First, I’d preach a brief message on what the Bible says about children, and our obligations concerning… Read more »
CB, thank you for your article. It is written with great detail that draws a vivid picture. There is no one right way of handling this issue on Sunday morning. There are probably hundreds of wrong ways. How a pastor responds to this issue publicly will most likely depend on the church he pastors. For me, I would detach the handling of this issue from the worship service. At the beginning of the service time I would share a statement that was clear that accusations were made concerning Bro. X (I would name him). I would share investigations were done… Read more »
Dean, I waffled on whether or not to do in the normal worship service slot or not–but I think that the cloud would be hanging over that time so strongly, and the risk of speaking to the situation an hour or two earlier cutting out people, that I would go with the normal time. Or, perhaps, I would have a massive joint Sunday School class and address it, but I think something would still have to be said during the normal gathering of the church. It’s worth thinking over. Everything about our thoughts may change in the real situation, but… Read more »
Doug, my thoughts are to have the statement at the very beginning of the worship service time followed by prayer and then flow into the service. Even though it is in worship service time the statement is detached from service.
Better check with lawyer before naming the accused, and how exactly to do so if you do….there is a thing called libel and slander. Also, authorities might not want you do that as it will all but certainly taint the jury pool and the trial…I can read a article now “pastor identifies ________________ as child molester.” Even those outside your church will hear about this…it is important to remember that public statements are out there and cannot be truly retracted….better be very careful what we say. What we say can have great impacts on the victims, the accused (whether guilty… Read more »
Tarheel, I fully appreciate what you have stated but the following is from the scenario given by CB, “The interview ends. The Social Worker tells the child’s mother that she believes the child’s testimony. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer comes into your office and tells you and the three cops the same. He tells the State Policemen an arrest of the church leader should be made. The Chief Deputy goes with them. An arrest is made.” It is not slander or liable to say that Bro. X has been arrested for child molestation when indeed he has been arrested.… Read more »
I should mention, “Bart’s team approach” worked because we had people in our congregation with all of these areas of expertise. I’ve pastored churches before at which this would have been a disastrous approach.
Yea, I can see that, Bart. Absolutely.
Dean, I feel ya…. but I THINK I would simply state that an investigation is ongoing and the authorities are handling that part of it. I do not think I would feel any compulsion to announce the charges to the church…. I am not a spokesperson for the police or the District attorneys offices…. besides the people in the church already know that. As far being concerned with the prosecution or defense team…I see that point. I agree. However, getting legal advice and checking with investigators before making such an announcement would be wise, IMO. Bart’s task force was made… Read more »
I believe the media stays out of legal trouble by using the word “allegedly.” I am not sure that even the media offers the names of minors who are victims of sex crimes. I’m thinking that naming the victim would be a problem. It would seem prudent for the church to offer a generic address to the effect that allegations have been made and an investigation is taking place if the acts took place in the context of church ministries. If they happened somewhere else I’m not sure an announcement would be appropriate at all even though the confession occurred… Read more »
“I would challenge our church to include three things in their prayer: 1) victim and family, 2) accused and family, 3) church family and ministries going forward.”
Well stated, Dean.
let the worship service be as usual, but call a special meeting of the congregation to give appropriate information, and answer any concerns I imagine parents of other children in the congregation especially need information, and the only thing to do is to be honest about the situation, but have an attorney advise about what ‘language’ is appropriate, and do have authorities present to answer inquiries, yes. The ONLY response is to try to do the right thing as it is a police matter and a legal matter. The congregation is entitled to know the facts, but conjecture about guilt… Read more »
I think it could be helpful to emphasize the portions of the timeline that explicitly confirm adherence with the (civil) law and explain how compliance with the law guided that timeline. This does NOT mean revealing any of the investigation details. Just when it was discovered, when it was reported to law enforcement personnel, and the specifics of the timeline as it impacted the body itself. I also feel that agreeing on a specific pattern for both honoring the privacy of the parties AND structuring the relationship between the accused and the church body would seem appropriate. Something along the… Read more »
“It’s just my naturally cautious reaction somewhat bolstered by knowing how the problem with the pedophile in the Indonesian Mission was inadequately handled resulting in twenty-two years without the man experiencing real consequences for his behavior and never being turned over to law enforcement authorities of any kind.”
Greg Harvey,
I remember hearing about that. If I have read your comments correctly, you were there during some of that time, right?
Find a tall tree and a short piece of rope, dig a deep hole . . . .
Oh sorry, you wanted me to respond as a pastor. I started to respond as a father of three.
Tell the church everything. Cooperate fully with police and prosecutors, and if the man is found guilty, aggressively advocate the maximum sentence allowed by law. Anything less is unjust and puts the entire church under the same threat Jesus uttered in Luke 17:2.
Joel Rainey,
Give me a call. I still have the same cell number. I would like to catch up with you.
You will have already called the cops, met with church staff and leaders, and prepared a statement. If the alleged perp is as prominent as CB describes, you will have already been contacted by local media and not a few church members. The statement of the church will likely have been printed as a part of the printed news and read as a part of radio/TV news reports. If you got that right, there is little to add Sunday. At Sunday’s service, you would read the prepared statement which covers the salient matters. I would not append much ad libbing… Read more »
“And, pastor, you aren’t the victim here. Don’t start feeling sorry for yourself and don’t try to gain sympathy for the church being put in a tough spot.”
Right as rain, William Thornton. Pastors who play the martyr card in such situations display a lack of character.
I think I would say to my congregation, “We have a great God. He is full of mercy and forgiveness. He is gentle and kind. He disciplines to restore fellowship. He is to be fearfully and faithfully worshipped. Nothing escapes His watchful eye. Vengeance is His alone. Jesus is God and He is conforming us to His image with every event, in every activity and even in the night watches. Today we will worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Now take your Bible and turn with me to…….” If I was a pastor, my congregation would know what the leadership… Read more »
“””If I was a pastor, my congregation would know what the leadership would do in every situation and how believers should react in every situation.”””
If only life came in such neat little packages.
I remember drills on my submarine. They had drills for every situation imaginable. But, when the real thing hit, it was like a whole new scenario. Preparation helped, to be sure, but it was not a panacea.
The problem with planning for contingencies in church is that every situation, though similar, involves people and the syncretism does not allow for a cookie cutter approach to crisis.
Frank L. If it is drills, I would agree with you that it would not work. We are to be trained in such character that we respond like Christ in these situations. The qualifications of Bishop and Deacon are similar but they are simply characteristic of a person who walks with Christ. I may not be qualified at this time but it should not hinder me from pursuing to live my life this way on a daily basis. We all should live and produce the fruit of the Spirit. If we do, we will be prepared for events we would… Read more »
I can go with that.
WOW, there are some smart people here, I think I’ll save this in case it happens to me. My initial thoughts were, tell the truth, as far as you know it. You can say Mr X was arrested, you don’t know what actually happened so you can’t speak to that. You can say we had plans in place to try to prevent this from happening etc. but that doesn’t offer people much after the fact. And don’t be the focus of attention, focus on those hurting from all this, the real victims, and there will probably be many, including the… Read more »
In making my statement I would say Bro x has been arrested for child molestation. He was not “alledgelly” arrested. He was arrested. One can read a copy of the local jail docket from the pulpit every Sunday if he chooses. There is no legal reason not to say one of our church members, Mr x has been arrested. The arrest is fact in CB’s scenario.
Putting myself in the shoes of the parent of the child, I cant say that calling the cops before notifying me sits well. I am not saying in the least that I would try to handle this myself, but I know my child better than anyone…even the preacher or the policement in the church. I may be able to offer insight on my child’s mindset and mental health condition…which may be a factor. No interviews without me or my wife present. Either way, come to me FIRST. Then you can call the cops. If its really me your calling, I’ll… Read more »
Amen. Be with your child when the police and CPS gets involved. Never let her be alone with either of them. Their methods create as much spiritual harm as she has already gone through. Never let CPS counsel her. Take her to a good Christian counselor who knows how to walk her through this without creating hate. You don’t want her to stay a victim all her life.
Some states do allow parents to be present. Some do not. In general, most people who have training, knowledge, and experience in interviewing children who have made a claim of sexual abuse against an adult agree that it is best for the parent or parents not to be present for the initial interview.
There are valid reasons for that position.
No agency within the US government is to be trusted in any form or at any time. They are trained to get information and they do not care about your child as much as they care about building a solid case. They are only building a case and can hurt your child more than they will ever help your child. If not a parent, someone at the church should sit in and have a biblical measure of control over the situation. One thing I know is, law enforcement and CPS believe it is ok for them to lie to get… Read more »
Right. It goes without saying, in my view, that parents woukd be notified first. Before anyone else.
In fact, as it relates to police and the like…. I’m pretty certain interviews by police or CPS cant be done without parental involvement, consent, or at the minimum notification. (at least I’d hope that’s the case)
Depends on the jurisdiction. It also depends on the jurisdiction whether or not you can legally notify parents first. In most cases, the general rule is that parents must be present, but a social worker can replace parents as an advocate for the child if the police/CPS deems it appropriate. And consider this: how much would you inform a parent about these issues on the phone? How long are you going to wait to call the police? And what is the blowback if the parent shows up, tells you not to call the police because they “know” the child is… Read more »
I was mainly considering myself as the example assuming I would be present at the church anyways.
Also, having a knowledge about the childs mental state would also help in knowing if the child is telling the truth. If this is something that has happened before (child accusing someone of inappropriate activity) I would be the best source of information for the authorities.
Children dont ALWAYS tell the truth. When I was a kid, I did some pretty horrible things with my lies.
Either way, I’m the parent and I know my child better than anyone.
5. Untrue allegations of child sexual assault are frequent, children often making up stories about adults to get them in trouble. FALSE. Children rarely lie about sexual assault. Statistics show that in 98% of cases children’s statements are found to be true. Children who report sexual abuse often describe sexual behaviour in detail, information they are unlikely to have unless their stories are true. http://www.rosiesplace.com.au/child-sexual-assault-myths-and-facts.html 4. Most children don’t know the people who assault them. FALSE. Approximately 85% of offenders are known to the child. Most offenders are relatives or close friends of the child whom the child trusts. same… Read more »
18. People close to a child should know that sexual abuse is happening.
FALSE. Sexual assault occurs because the offender works hard to keep it a secret. His grooming of the child extends to others in the child’s network to ensure that people don’t suspect the abuse
same source as above.
When Children Tell…
Believe them
Stress that whatever has happened is not their fault.
Tell them that you know how hard it is to tell but they have done what is right.
Say you know that some adult do such thing.
Do everything you can to comfort and reassure the child
http://www.rosiesplace.com.au/what-is-sexual-assult.html
“””” Sexual assault occurs because the offender works hard to keep it a secret. “”””
ABSOLUTELY!
OK then.
In middle school my girlfriend would get in touble with her Dad and then slam her arm in the closet door and go to school and report him for child abuse…multiple times. It CAN happen.
Just sayin. I mean, I dont want to get in the way of the “proper authorities” but my knowledge of my child trumps anyone elses.
IMO —-
I’m contacting parents first….the government is instituted by God, as was the church, but neither is superior to the parents….plain and simple.
The only exception to this would be if the parent is the accused.
Parents are God odained earthly custodians of children….we have nor the govt. in my mind have the biblical high ground over that of parents.
Tarheel, I understand what you are saying. There is a strong caveat in the statutes of my state that a mandated reporter is NOT to be an investigator.
If one were to contact a parent first it could have the unintended consequence of jeopardizing the investigation.
As I said, I understand what you are saying and I will not comment on what I have or have not done.
I’m not talking about investigating….I’m talking about notification.
Maybe i’ll add these caveats….I’ll make a good faith effort to contact parents first….if I can’t…I call police….if I do in the course of the face to face notification I’m explaining that I’m compelled to contact authorities.
Adam G. in NC and Tarheel, It is true (or it should be, sometimes it is not) that a parent knows their child better than anyone. I, personally, would want to know first if my child claimed someone ahd abused them. However, in our culture, there are other realities that must be considered when a child makes a claim of sexual abuse. One sad, very sad, but fart too often reality is that a parent, step-parent, or guardian is somehow involved in the abusive conduct that has been perpetrated upon the child. There are people who sale they children’s services… Read more »
My typos are far too many in the above comment tot he gentlemen from NC, but I hope you understand the intended content.
Rosie’s place is a counseling center assisting children, young people and families in sexual assault.
I will add to this conversation…that we also need to keep in mind that some people have been falsely accused of sex crimes, as well. And, DNA tests have pointed this out…also, women and children later taking back their accusations… Also, I had a friend, who was falsely accused of sexual abuse of a teen, minor boy….I cant go into all the details, but, let’s just say that the boy was trying to keep his over the legal age girlfriend out of trouble after this Pastor caught them having sex…the boy was underage…. Later, in court, the boy and girl… Read more »
When males discuss sex abuse of children, the conversation inevitably turns to false accusations. While such is a part of all this, it is a minor part. My sense is that when false accusations are given more prominence than is deserved, the more of our colleagues who will feel a need to do an in-house investigation prior to the reporting of an incident of child sex abuse.
This is a grave mistake.
I’m no lawyer, but if I remember my civics classes correctly a person charged with any crime is presumed innocent until found guilty. Much damage is done to alleged perpetrators and their families by all the talk and presumptions of guilt even within the church. While you arr correct that false accusation is given much more prominence than it deserves, that doesn’t negate the possibility of false accusation. I’ve seen it at work. False accusation ruins people and devastates families. One thing I’ve had to tell people in my church is that gossip is a sin that is confronted in… Read more »
I’ve seen and heard of women, who cry rape when they get mad at some man….believe me, some people are mean enough to do this to a person…and not bat an eye.
But, of course, we should take all allegations seriously…very seriously… and we should report it to the police, and let the law take care of it….then, we need to do our part in ministering to the hurting, and bring healing in the name of Jesus.
David
To say nothing of custody disputes…..I cannot count (using the fingers on both habds, and the toes on both feet) the false and or exaggerated accusations levied by one spouse at the other….while it is not always related to sexual molestation accusations…I have seen that happen more than once. I have even witnessed cases of coaxing by one parent. grandparent, family friend of children into saying things that are devastating while the child has little if any clue that they are being manipulated. I would agree that most accusations of physical abuse of any kind are likely true ( to… Read more »
We’re all over the lot here. Presumption of innocence is the legal standard. While credible reports of abuse do not demand presumption of guilt, the response must consider safety of children to be paramount, not the well being of the alleged perp. The church should be gracious to all without appearing to rally around the accused as if he is the victim. It is almost expected that a prominent individual will be believed at the expense of a child (“We all know xxxx and he couldn’t have done such a thing”).
Perhaps a
I’m not advocating that the alleged perp is to be believed over the child. I’m for any action that protects children. My concern for both children and the accused would be that the alleged peep would be removed from any church activity that involves children and that he/she would be present at church functions in the surrounding company of adults. The alleged perp would have to determine if he/she is willing to attend under the discipline and direction of church leadership. If the perp chooses to go elsewhere to church it would be our obligation to inform the other church… Read more »
That should be perp and rumor, not peep and runoff.
Vol,
I agree about godless women making such claims. It does happen and it has ruined some good men. However, I am not addressing godless women. I am addressing the problem of sexual abuse against children. Rarely do children make false accusations and when they do, it is usually detectable fairly early by those trained to interview sexually abused children. However, each claim must be treated as a criminal investigation.
CB, If a man is guilty of abusing a child, then he most certainly should be punished. I can just tell you that my friend was accused by a 16 yr old boy… I believe he was…..because the boy was trying to keep his girlfriend out of trouble….she was like 18 or 19. My friend was innocent. Thankfully, the court saw thru the lies. But, I agree with you….if someone is abusing a child, then they should face the music. And, if we’re told about abuse, by a child, then we should immediately get the law involved, and let them… Read more »
Vol, Situations like you have described in your comment do happen. Frankly, I think they are happening more frequently due to an increase of sociopathic and psychopathic behavior of people under twenty (20) years of age in our culture. Such things do add an additional burden upon ministry people in dealing with sex crimes against minor children. Actually, your testimony of the events you have described give even more credibility to the admonition that upon being informed of the possibility of a sex crime against a child, a pastor should immediately notify law enforcement. I feel for young men who… Read more »
William Thornton, You are right. When males discuss sex abuse of children, or in general, the conversation inevitably turns to false accusations. I have been in some panel discussions as to why that happens. Here is one theory that I personally believe to be true. The Bible teaches that any sexual activity outside of marriage is sin. Jesus Himself stated that to lust after a female in one’s heart is sin. Every male has committed sexual sin. This includes every man who comments on this blog and any other blog. Therefore, many men do not understand the difference between sexual… Read more »
That should be: “Men who have sexual relations of any kind ‘with children’ are criminals.”
That needed to be corrected or we will all need to turn ourselves in to the police. 🙂
I would simply say that the accused is not a criminal until the gavel falls on the judge’s bench.
Duckman dale,
The person that is accused of a sex crime against a minor child is a “convicted” criminal after the “gavel falls on the judge’s bench.”
If he/she is guilty of a sex crime against a minor child even prior to the fall of the judge’s gavel he/she is a criminal. After he/she is convicted in court of the crime, he/she is then a “convicted” criminal.
Anyone who has been accused of sexual activity with a minor child has been accused of committing a crime.
I would hope that all of us recognize that when a credible report of abuse has been made against staff or volunteers our actions as pastor must be to take precautions by suspending any activity of the individual that involves children. On that basis such actions are a presumption of guilt regardless of our feelings otherwise. The staff member may be suspended with pay, and have restricted activities, but sufficient steps have to be taken to ensure protection of children.
It’s difficult in a lot of ways.
And I would agree with that. My point is that trial by public opinion is not acceptable in the church. If the individual is accused and found not guilty then that person is not and has not been a criminal. Thus, that individual should not be treated as such. Unfortunately, the stigma of unfounded allegations hangs with a person for a lifetime. That isn’t right.
I’m certainly in agreement with you and many others here. But to be accused of committing a crime is NOT the same as having committed the crime.
I don’t think anyone is arguing otherwise, Dale, but the pastor and church have no choice but to take action that treats the accused as if the charges are true.
I hope none of us have to deal with any of this.
Maybe I’m talking past the issue, and I certainly agree with the things written here. It is a horrible thing to deal with. I can attest to the horror of allegations that are proven true and those found to be false. None of it is something I want to deal with again.
Dale, How would you feel if you had to turn someone in and they had to spend over $10K to defend themselves and it turned out that they were innocent all along? Do you think that person would continue to go to your church? Do you think you could be sued? I feel for you guys. I have heard that there is a law pending that every person, regardless of position, will have to turn people in. It is going to get bad and lawsuits are going to fly. The percentage of lawsuits may be low, but what are the… Read more »
While I feel badly for the wrongly accused individual I think the greater risk lies in not pursuing justice for all those involved. That person would likely not attend our church again. As I said above the stigma will probably remain. Could I be sued? I don’t know, but its a risk I’m willing to take for the child. I’m not advocating anything except what I see as a proper response from the church. I would remove the alleged perp from any position held, I would encourage that person to seek legal counsel, and I would encourage that person to… Read more »
Duckman Dale, I understand your concerns and I have them also. I hope you see my point here also. (In a later post, if Dave Miller allows, I intend to share a scenario wherein the accused was innocent. BTW, the scenario shared in this post is based on actual events. I will share the outcome later.) As you already know, any sexual activity between an adult and a child is a crime. I think we can establish that as fact. I also think we all would agree that accusations/legal charges/criminal convictions against people for crimes against children are pregnant with… Read more »
I certainly see and agree with what you say here, SEC CB. no argument from me at all.
Duckman Dale,
Having been in local church ministry as long as you have, I bet you will also agree that dealing with such horrors in the church will keep a fellow up at night on bended knees, asking for more light.
However, that is nothing compared to the nightmares of the child involved. No one suffers in these situations as does the child, no one.
Agreed, CB. It sends shivers down my spine and breaks my heart.
Duckman Dale,
This past week I has sessions with a multitude of individuals. Therefore, I can make the following statement without breaking any confidence or revealing any facts.
As I listened to the story of a particular young person I had the following thought/prayer/plea as they left my office. “Surely Lord, the time is near? Come now, Lord Jesus. Come now.”
Dale,
I agree with you. The only thing I would add is to walk through it with him/her. Same with the child. Our churches need to be trained on how to minister with both. From what I see on this stream, many do not follow them any further than when the police and CPS get involved. That is not our mission as believers. Follow up and comfort them all the way. Do not let the government change the teaching of the church. Believe me, they do.
I have not seen any comments that would change my predisposition to make reasonable attempt notify parent(s) first. I would only share this with them face to face, not over the phone….and it must happen immendiatly…as in the same night I hear of the allegation. I’m thinking that the only exceptions would be if the accusation is against a member of the household, father, stepfather, brother, step brother, etc…that is common sense and could serve as a tip off so to speak… However, if the alleged abuser is someone that is not so connected to the household – I feel… Read more »
Tarheel,
I understand your position. I truly do. And I wish it could be as you state it should be. However, over time, I have learned that I do not have that option.
I’ve pretty much stayed out of Part 2 of this discussion. But I will add this general comment (addressed to no one in particular) and no more… Pastor, if an adult was criminally abused, she would call the authorities herself. The only reason that you even have a decision on whether or not to immediately call the authorities is because the child in question is not mature enough to have called them immediately without your assistance. The fact is that the first adult whom the child confides in should have immediately called prior to notifying you of anything. And any… Read more »
Ken: Exactly.
Ken Hamrick’s comment pretty well covers the bases. Sex crimes perpetrated upon children is a complex issue. However, the pastor’s initial response to being made aware by the child, or any other person, is rather simple. Make your first call to law enforcement. Let them handle the investigation as to whether a crime has been committed or not. Another point that may be worthy of consideration here is that if the complaint is public knowledge within the church body and you have already contacted law enforcement you will have one less issue to deal with as you do what you… Read more »
I want to be clear yet again…..I’m not investigating….I’m only following the biblical order of things. The govt. Does not trump the God given responsibility of a parent to parent thier child. Absent the abuser being in the household….they’re getting contacted first. Again, this is no way an investigation….it’s only alerting parents, those who know and love thier child th most. We’re having VBS this week. I can honestly say I love all the children and teens involved – but I don’t / can’t love them like Mom and Dad. I’m not thier parent, I’m a pastor. I teach parental… Read more »
I’d also add that being pro parent is being pro child.
Ugh. Mobile blogging and auto correct.
This scenario is very United States or western culture centric. What about in
non-civilized and non-govermental organized areas of the world.
The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest protestant missionary sending agency in the world surely we encounter those situations?
For example in cultures where those in authority celebrate child molestation.
Are you still going to call the authorities?
I mean who called called the authorities for Aisha?
BTW-I love western culture.
“What about in non-civilized and non-govermental organized areas of the world?”
Robert I Masters,
I once got fired for giving a response to almost that exact question. So I will stand down from giving a response here and simply respond by stating, you are right? The scenario is exclusively confined to the United States.
I’m not aware of a culture that explicitly encourages molestation of children per se (well, other than some fundamentalist sects on the border of Arizona and Utah that occasionally escape to Texas). I would like to think that the IMB has developed a more responsive (and responsible) policy than the one that accidentally let a missionary continue on the field for 22 years in Indonesia while he continued to molest young MKs… But I will offer that’s very precisely the kind of problem we’re talking about. Not responding when there is sufficient knowledge to respond. And trying to pretend the… Read more »
Greg,
Surely you consider FGM, molestation or abuse and certainly that happens in Indonesia ! Do not Islamic authorities sanction that abuse.
http://tinyurl.com/bapor28
Bart Barber provides an excellent response and pathway to address this issue. We live in difficult times. Evil has been unleashed in various forms – some of it finding comfortable lodging in church. “Trust” is critical in the sanctuaries we call churches, but I’m not sure we can rest in that without some level of paranoia. In the local news this morning, was a report about a church organist (not SBC) who poisoned her husband, son, and daughter. All were trusted members of the church music program and active in community missions. Two are dead, one in critical condition and… Read more »
Max, as you point out, saved sinners are still sinners. We never lose the capacity for doing evil. It is a battle that most be fought against the old nature moment by moment.
We do indeed need a new level of discernment to meet the new level of evil in our society.
Frank L, while saved sinners are still sinners, there is another element to consider as well: not everybody that goes to church is the Church. Wolves in sheep clothing are finding corners in our sanctuaries to hide … the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. Pray.
“Wolves in sheep clothing are finding corners in our sanctuaries to hide … the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. Pray.”
A true statement. I think I have met several. When you look into their eyes there is a strange vacancy.
cb scott,
I am so glad you are hitting this topic head on. I can see your compassion for the victims. I have worked with these victims for 15 years, but we didn’t get them until they became hardened, and got in trouble. Thank you cb.
Thank you for the kind words, Jess Alford.
Max,
Amen!
Max,
I cannot find the verse, where saved sinners are still sinners.
Please enlighten me.
Jess, actually I was quoting Frank L on that in my response to his comment – those were his words not mine. We all know the struggle of transitioning from the old man to the new man … sin happens. But the Apostle John gives us hope: “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father – Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1). However, there is “sin” and there is “evil” … my concern lies with our ability to discern the… Read more »
http://www.news9.com/story/22678754/teen-tells-police-tulsa-pastor-is-father-of-her-unborn-child
One of my favorite blogs is Wartburg Watch. The toe ladies there are sensible, thorough, and have far more knowledge and experience in this area than I. Today they mention this: ” Deb and I are aware of a serial pedophile, now serving time, who conned the pastors in a church. He learned that a teen was going to report an incident. He went to the pastors first and jovially told them that there was some silly locker room humor going on at an event. He made it sound insignificant, joking about it. He even offered to resign. However, he… Read more »
“Un-savvy”
“Pastors are notoriously in-savvy in this area and are also prone to believe their staff member or volunteer worker who is so faithful in church.”
William Thornton,
No matter if you state it “in” or “un” :-), you are absolutely correct.