It is Saturday morning. You are sitting on the back deck of your home. You are drinking coffee, strong and black. You normally drink a lot of coffee because you like it. However, you have been drinking much more of it for the last three days. One reason is because you are not very hungry so you are drinking coffee just so you will not be sitting at the table with your family staring off into another world as they try to eat their meals. However, you have noticed that your wife and teenage children are not eating much either. In addition, the normal table talk that takes place during meal times around your home has become stale and forced. You also notice that your wife’s eyes reveal that she has, once again, been crying while preparing the meals that she normally takes such pride in providing for her husband and sons. Your family is in an emotional lockdown and you know the reason why. A tragedy has struck in your church family and it has nothing to do with a funeral. It is worse.
Tomorrow is Sunday. . . . And for the first time since you became pastor of the church, you wish Sunday wasn’t coming.
During your ministry as pastor of the local church to which God has assigned you, the church has grown. You have large crowds even though the town where you are is not very big. You have members in your church coming from three counties other than your own. God has blessed. Yet, you are thinking, “Tomorrow is Sunday. Every seat in the worship center will be full. There will be people standing up along the walls . . . but, they will not be there to hear me preach the gospel. They will be there to hear what I have to say about the events that have occurred since this past Wednesday night.”
This past Wednesday night a ten (10) year old child was brought to you by the Children’s Minister and an AWANA worker. The child had told the AWANA worker of experiencing sexual misconduct from a leading member of the church, the major financial contributor in the body, a leading member of the community, and an employer of many of the people living in the town.
You looked into the child’s eyes and you just knew in your gut she was telling the truth, but you also knew there were steps that must be taken now that would be scrutinized by knowledgeable people and by armchair quarterbacks as well. You knew that because this was not the first time you have had to deal with sexual abuse in the body of Christ, but it was the first time in this church.
After you had heard the child’s story from the AWANA worker, you did what you knew you had to do and this time, you were somewhat fortunate. The church you serve has over a dozen law enforcement personnel as regular members. You called a State Policeman in your church. The State Policeman called the State Police Sex Crimes Officer for your area. Next, you called the child’s mother and asked her to come to the church office. She got there before the Sex Crimes Officer arrived. You, along with your wife, the AWANA Worker and the Children’s Minister tell the child’s mother what had happened. She breaks down in tears. She just can’t believe that God would let this happen to her child. After she gains her composure, the Associate Pastor and his wife bring the child into your office to be with her mother.
When the mother embraces her child and the tears again begin to flow, every eye in the room fills with tears . . . except yours. You are becoming angry. You are angry with yourself that this has happened “on your watch.” You are angry that you never picked up on the fact that you had a sexual predator in the church leadership. You had done all the “right” things. All the guidelines were in place. Everyone who works with children in the church had had criminal background checks and they were on record, current and up to date. Every “i” had been dotted. Every “t” had been crossed. Nonetheless, here you are. Once again you are dealing with the carnage of having a sexual predator in a local church.
You leave your office and wait on the State Policeman and the Sex Crimes Officer out in the parking lot. No one still in the parking lot thinks anything of it when the cruiser pulls up, because the State Cop is a member of the church and the Sex Crimes Officer is in plain clothes. Law enforcement officers are constantly in and out of the church. Three of them work in AWANA. Two others are deacons. There is a running joke in the church that “no one would ever try to take the Sunday morning offering in this church, there are armed cops in every pew.” But this is not about a robbery. This is about a sex crime. In your heart, you wish someone had robbed the church and burned down the buildings rather than what has happened. Then reality strikes your soul like being slapped in the face with a dead cat. Someone has been robbed.
A child has been robbed of that which can never be replaced: Innocence, Trust, Laughter, and an untold number of other things that children should have and enjoy when ten years of age.
The State Police Sex Crimes Officer has called a State Licensed Social Worker to join him to interview the child. She arrives after most of the Wednesday night AWANA crowd has left.
Two other State Police Officers and the Chief Deputy of the Sheriff’s Department have arrived and are with you in your office, all three are members of the church. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer and the Social Worker use the Associate Pastor’s office to conduct the interview. The child’s mother is waiting in the reception area and your wife, the AWANA worker, and the Associate Pastor’s wife are with her.
The interview ends. The Social Worker tells the child’s mother that she believes the child’s testimony. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer comes into your office and tells you and the three cops the same. He tells the State Policemen an arrest of the church leader should be made. The Chief Deputy goes with them. An arrest is made. On Thursday morning the whole town knows what has taken place. The phones at the church offices ring continually. Your Administrative Assistant became so distraught due to the accusative tone of some of the calls you told her to go home. The phones continue to ring.
By Friday, you have called your insurance agent, the church attorney, and held a joint meeting with the deacons and trustees. The child and her mother are now at the grandparent’s home in another county. The church leader accused of a sex crime against a minor child is out of jail on bond. He is gathering his army of supporters.
Now, it is Sunday Morning. Sunday School is over. You were in your office praying alone during the Sunday School hour. You are about to walk into the worship center. It is packed, with standing room only. You walk in as the choir sings the church anthem, “Brethren, We Have Met To Worship.”
The time comes for you to take the pulpit. You do so and look out over the crowd. They are waiting. They are waiting for you to speak. What do you say?
What would you do? What would you do if you were in this local pastor’s shoes?
I’m actually too scared to comment…
That makes two of us. But….
I will say though that I have no idea what I would say…. and I think it is dangerous to try to can up a response to use in case a hypothetical comes true,
Although a comparably a much, much lighter matter…. I can remember talking with fellow “preacher boys” in my school days in the security of a college atmosphere and without ever having been in the circumstance about how I would deal with a deacon who was causing division. Fast forward several years and add the reality of actually entered the ministry and behold I faced that very issue
I quickly found that all the brilliant pontifications I posited around the dining hall tables were not so brilliant or profitable after all.
Point being…. plans and precautions, pre-thinking and of course praying are crucial with an issue such as this…but I am not sure that anyone who has not actually been in that situation would truly be able to articulate “what they would do” when standing before that congregation on Sunday morning. Context, church/pastor relationship/advice of attorneys and admonitions/instructions of police/investigators would also play a role in what is spoken at that moment and most of those qualifiers are impossible to accurately determine from your hypothetical.
Having a plan (for many things) is important. The plan won’t fit all the issues, but it may (probably will) fit several of them. At least you will have a place to start and will have given it some though while things were calm.
First: ask the Sex Crimes Officer to be present if department rules allow. Have his official contact number in the bulletin and inform the congregation that if anyone else has a similar crime or even suspicion of one, that the officer needs to be contacted. Ask them not to contact him/her for third-hand rumors or to ask how the case is going, but only to report additional known incidents. Ask that any such be reported to him first, not to you–but if they would like for you to know, they are free to inform you as well.
Second: call the people to pray. I’d pitch the intended sermon and call the people to pray. In their seat, down at the front, wherever. I’d spend lots of time on that.
Pray for the victim and family. Pray for the investigative team. Pray for the accused’s family–often they are in shock, denial, and trauma–and given your scenario, they are now facing loss of home, livelihood, and everything over just his sin. Pray for the accused–find a way to keep the word “alleged” involved, but not in a way that attacks the victim–but pray that if guilty, he will see the value of confession and seeking forgiveness while accepting the consequences (going to prison). Pray that if a mistake was made, that it will be clear and known. I would hesitate to say anything that indicates the victim was not abused, but rather pray that if the child as mis-identified the abuser that the right one will be known and dealt with.
And I would also preach on two other things, though briefly: 1. Control your anger. A dad here in Arkansas deprived his abused daughter of a father for 20 years, pending parole. He was just convicted/sentenced last week. If his daughter heals and is able to marry, she will either have to wait until she’s past 30 or not have her dad walk her down the aisle.
He did not help. End of story. Further, any other victims may be hesitant or silenced since “the guy’s dead, so why dig up the past?”
Second, I would speak to gossip. This is in the hands of the professionals to investigate. Further, we will be asking outside (probably recommended by insurance or law enforcement) individuals to double-check all of our policies and procedures. It is not the time for running down the victim or trying to fill in the blanks. People with information or accusations should go to the police, not their neighbor. People with pain should seek out (might be good to have available to recommend) counseling help–which should primarily come from outside this local church to avoid the appearance of a cover-up.
And finally, apologize. Without equivocating. Apologize to the family, though absent. Apologize to the church. Apologize for the harm that this does to people and to the witness of the church and ask forgiveness for not knowing.
And that last comes no matter what your lawyer or insurance company says. People are hurt. Even a simple “I do not know what else I could have done differently or led us to do differently, and I am sorry and ask your forgiveness for that: not knowing.” is better than a “Well, it’s not MY fault this happened” approach.
“1. Control your anger.”
Doug Hibbard,
You are right as rain on this. I failed a couple of times on this one. Fell back to old methods. It made things complicated to say the least. Sinful conduct always does.
Here’s what we did.
The deacons and I had created a task force to give guidance through this situation. We selected people with expertise in law enforcement, legal issues, public relations, and internal communication within the church. I prepared a sermon/statement in full manuscript form—highly unusual for me. The entire task force reviewed it and approved it. I delivered that statement.
One thing: Because of the timing of ours, this took place on Wednesday, not Sunday.
We tried to accomplish many things with the statement:
1. To encourage other victims to come forward.
2. To express our corporate grief and to explore God’s comfort to those who grieve.
3. To express the confidence found in 2 Corinthians 4:8-9 that even when we are cast down we are not destroyed because of the grace of God.
We also announced that we would host a Q&A session on Sunday night. We invited everyone to attend. The entire task force was available for the Q&A session. If the answer to a particular question tended to compromise a victim’s privacy, we declined to answer it. Otherwise, we tried to answer people’s questions to the best of our abilities.
This was a difficult, painful time for our church and for me personally. Frankly, I did not enjoy going to my hard drive and pulling up that information again. Just reading over the words again made me a little sick.
Bart, one thing that I have pondered over last few days because of CB’s article is would I need to encourage the victims to come forward or go a step further and offer a time and place for state police investigators and counselors to meet with parents and children involved in our children’s ministries. Do you have any thoughts?
In our county the law enforcement and social services people involved with child abuse have created a Children’s Advocacy Center as a sort of one-stop shop for victims. We had a representative from the CAC present at the Q&A and available afterwards. We did discover a number of other victims after we found the first one.
Thank you Bart for sharing that. I found it very insightful and helpful.
This seems to be a well thought out, healthy and serious approach.
Very mature and appropriate response Bart. And kudos to your lay leadership. We need more pastors and church leaders willing to face issues like this head on.
Bart,
You are right. Using a written statement which has been edited and re-edited by a predetermined team is the best way to make the first public statement as pastor of the church. And it is still not easy, is it? Referring to it in the future when questioned by media is also a wise thing.
I typed a response a few minutes ago, but Feedly ate is, so here goes again. Now, I’m not a preacher so I cannot fully wrap my mind around what all would be going on within the preacher’s head & heart at the time, but if I were suddenly called on (as an old dude) to lead the service, this is what I’m thinking.
I’m assuming I can’t get CB Scott on the phone at the moment to ask HIM what to do……
First, I’d preach a brief message on what the Bible says about children, and our obligations concerning them. And what our obligations are to respect the law as being one of God’s instruments for righteousness.
Then I’d give a simple factual account of what had taken place.
Then I think I’d ask the congregation, as a local “Body of Christ”, if they had any suggestions as to what the Body should do in response to this. That discussion might cover the Body’s attitudes, actions and such things as conjecture, gossip, etc. and what might be done to minimize any such occurrences in the future.
All of which may explain why I am not a pastor.
CB, thank you for your article. It is written with great detail that draws a vivid picture. There is no one right way of handling this issue on Sunday morning. There are probably hundreds of wrong ways. How a pastor responds to this issue publicly will most likely depend on the church he pastors.
For me, I would detach the handling of this issue from the worship service. At the beginning of the service time I would share a statement that was clear that accusations were made concerning Bro. X (I would name him). I would share investigations were done and he has been arrested. I would not mention victims name though all would know who he or she was. I would inform the victims family and the accused’s family that the statement would be made that Sunday so they could decide to attend or not. I would have an altar call at the end of the statement for my church family to pray together publicly. I would challenge our church to include three things in their prayer: 1) victim and family, 2) accused and family, 3) church family and ministries going forward.
Once that prayer time was over we would have as normal as possible of a worship service under the circumstances. My week would have been beyond hectic and my heart broken and angry. I would prayerfully pull one of my “used” sermons and preach it verbatim without ever mentioning the incident in my message. This are my first thoughts. I’m sure they would change a thousand times before Sunday arrived.
Dean, I waffled on whether or not to do in the normal worship service slot or not–but I think that the cloud would be hanging over that time so strongly, and the risk of speaking to the situation an hour or two earlier cutting out people, that I would go with the normal time.
Or, perhaps, I would have a massive joint Sunday School class and address it, but I think something would still have to be said during the normal gathering of the church.
It’s worth thinking over. Everything about our thoughts may change in the real situation, but some semblance of plan is worth starting with.
Doug, my thoughts are to have the statement at the very beginning of the worship service time followed by prayer and then flow into the service. Even though it is in worship service time the statement is detached from service.
Better check with lawyer before naming the accused, and how exactly to do so if you do….there is a thing called libel and slander.
Also, authorities might not want you do that as it will all but certainly taint the jury pool and the trial…I can read a article now “pastor identifies ________________ as child molester.” Even those outside your church will hear about this…it is important to remember that public statements are out there and cannot be truly retracted….better be very careful what we say. What we say can have great impacts on the victims, the accused (whether guilty or innocent), the prosecution, the defense team, the community (jury pool), etc….
I loved Bart’s approach of the task force….this way there are people – minds, hearts and heads that will be involved. I think scripture advises the finding of wisdom is many counselors.
Chances are the media will name him/her and people will know anyway…but you doing so might not be wise for anyone.
I don’t know. This goes back to my point earlier….there are lots of variables that cannot be truly ascertained in the safety of bloggerland.
Tarheel, I fully appreciate what you have stated but the following is from the scenario given by CB,
“The interview ends. The Social Worker tells the child’s mother that she believes the child’s testimony. The State Police Sex Crimes Officer comes into your office and tells you and the three cops the same. He tells the State Policemen an arrest of the church leader should be made. The Chief Deputy goes with them. An arrest is made.”
It is not slander or liable to say that Bro. X has been arrested for child molestation when indeed he has been arrested. I would not identify him as a child molester. I would state that he has been arrested for child molestation which is of public record. I do not believe reporting that Bro. X has been arrested for child molestation in anyway contaminates the jury pool or affects the criminal process. On this Sunday morning I am a pastor who is concerned for my church family. An innocent child has been molested and a prominent member of my church family arrested. The prosecution or defense team will not be high on my priority list at this time.
I do agree with you that Bart’s team approach is wise and has plenty of merit.
I should mention, “Bart’s team approach” worked because we had people in our congregation with all of these areas of expertise. I’ve pastored churches before at which this would have been a disastrous approach.
Yea, I can see that, Bart. Absolutely.
Dean,
I feel ya…. but I THINK I would simply state that an investigation is ongoing and the authorities are handling that part of it.
I do not think I would feel any compulsion to announce the charges to the church…. I am not a spokesperson for the police or the District attorneys offices…. besides the people in the church already know that.
As far being concerned with the prosecution or defense team…I see that point. I agree. However, getting legal advice and checking with investigators before making such an announcement would be wise, IMO.
Bart’s task force was made up of professionals and I would be willing to bet that they advised him “be careful” and “don’t say that” or “say it this way”. Without the benefit of that expertise our (most) churches…. we must, IMO check with our church’s lawyer and yes the authorities to make sure nothing I am planning to say will adversely affect their case…. I think we would both hate for something I said in the pulpit to be a talking point at trial or create extra problems for the prosecution should the defendant actually be guilty. I am not about protecting the guilty perp….I am saying that damaging the case hurts the victims over again.
I am leaning toward saying as little as possible about the actual case – although I also think the church member only Q&A if qualified task force can be arranged, is a good idea.
The reason I would say as little as possible…as that is not my expertise…I do not want to mess anything up by speaking to things outside of my real knowledge base.
My calling is to pastor. I am thinking I would make a really short statement that has been seen and approved, a Bart type task force if we have that luxury, or the authorities if not. I would form a team to review all of our policies and procedures and announce that to the church. Then I would call our church to prayer and fasting, caution against anger, gossip and backbiting, advise them that God is still in control and we still have a mission and that mission is to proclaim the glorious gospel of Christ to every nation, tribe and tongue and then…. I hope…. would preach like a dying man to dying men.
I have purposed in my heart to always remember that any authority to speak into the lives and hearts of other that I have is manifest only through my faithful preaching/teaching of God’s word…. when I step from under that covering I am asking for trouble.
I pray that this principle would guide me should your hypothetical scenario become a nightmarish reality.
I believe the media stays out of legal trouble by using the word “allegedly.” I am not sure that even the media offers the names of minors who are victims of sex crimes. I’m thinking that naming the victim would be a problem. It would seem prudent for the church to offer a generic address to the effect that allegations have been made and an investigation is taking place if the acts took place in the context of church ministries. If they happened somewhere else I’m not sure an announcement would be appropriate at all even though the confession occurred at church. If they happened on church grounds a statement to the effect of what the church is doing to make sure nothing like this ever happens again would be appropriate.
“I would challenge our church to include three things in their prayer: 1) victim and family, 2) accused and family, 3) church family and ministries going forward.”
Well stated, Dean.
let the worship service be as usual, but call a special meeting of the congregation to give appropriate information, and answer any concerns
I imagine parents of other children in the congregation especially need information, and the only thing to do is to be honest about the situation, but have an attorney advise about what ‘language’ is appropriate, and do have authorities present to answer inquiries, yes.
The ONLY response is to try to do the right thing as it is a police matter and a legal matter. The congregation is entitled to know the facts, but conjecture about guilt or innocence is inappropriate before investigation and trials (if it goes that far) are completed.
No one can envy a pastor in the middle of something so terrible. It helps if the pastor remains strong and does what is right, the ‘powerful accused who finances much’ should only have a much consideration as the law allows any man, innocent or guilty, who has been accuse of a serious crime.
Very sad, this.
Good that the Church is talking about what to do and how to do it. That means ‘the topic’ is out of the closet and children will be more protected because of the increase in public consciousness about what can and sometimes does happen when predators seek out young victims in places where no one thinks about this kind of thing possibly happening.
good work, C.B.
I think it could be helpful to emphasize the portions of the timeline that explicitly confirm adherence with the (civil) law and explain how compliance with the law guided that timeline. This does NOT mean revealing any of the investigation details. Just when it was discovered, when it was reported to law enforcement personnel, and the specifics of the timeline as it impacted the body itself.
I also feel that agreeing on a specific pattern for both honoring the privacy of the parties AND structuring the relationship between the accused and the church body would seem appropriate. Something along the lines of:
“Our attorney and liability insurance agent recommended that due to the seriousness of the offense and in order to avoid interfering with the investigation that we take the following steps as a church:
1. Please do not contact any of the parties asking for information about the case. That includes the victim or family, the accused or family, important witnesses, or the law enforcement or justice personnel that might be involved.
2. Please respect the privacy of all of the involved parties by avoiding publication of information that might or might not be public. The best way to do this is refer to published accounts such as in newspapers as the source of information (even if incomplete.)
3. Due to the arrest and again due to the kind of potential criminality, we have asked our attorney to outline with the involved families a participation plan with the church. It will discuss potential interference with the investigation and with maintenance of privacy and especially with our concern that any judicial proceedings happen in a manner that is consistent with the law.
4. During the period of time that there is a known active criminal investigation or currently active criminal indictment of any member of the church, in order to limit liability to the congregation we by policy automatically suspend their participation in leadership positions in the church.
Once those investigations, indictments, or the succeeding trials and appeals have been concluded and the person’s name has been cleared, then they are invited to appeal the automatic suspension as deemed appropriate based on the outcome of the situation. If their current leadership term expires then the suspension continues to apply to any new positions that they are recommended for.
In the event the person is a paid minister, due to the sensitive nature of the role of ministry, their employment contract calls for termination due to an indictment, otherwise they will be suspended until the investigation is complete and their name is cleared.”
Something along those lines. What I think you need to be very careful of is permitting the person to have contact with children or trusting the spouse or the family of the accused to be responsible for maintaining contact rules. If the person is on the property of the church, arguably he should be monitored during the entire visit preferably by a non-sympathetic law enforcement person.
I’ve learned you can’t trust a man who has sexually molested children. They will do it again given the opportunity regardless of how many times they claim on the Bible that they won’t. And–regrettably–you must treat an accused with the same caution as someone who is found guilty and exhausted all appeals out of an abundance of caution. If they’re mature, they will understand and will accept the limitation.
But I’m not a pastor nor have I been involved in a specific situation like this. It’s just my naturally cautious reaction somewhat bolstered by knowing how the problem with the pedophile in the Indonesian Mission was inadequately handled resulting in twenty-two years without the man experiencing real consequences for his behavior and never being turned over to law enforcement authorities of any kind.
“It’s just my naturally cautious reaction somewhat bolstered by knowing how the problem with the pedophile in the Indonesian Mission was inadequately handled resulting in twenty-two years without the man experiencing real consequences for his behavior and never being turned over to law enforcement authorities of any kind.”
Greg Harvey,
I remember hearing about that. If I have read your comments correctly, you were there during some of that time, right?
Find a tall tree and a short piece of rope, dig a deep hole . . . .
Oh sorry, you wanted me to respond as a pastor. I started to respond as a father of three.
Tell the church everything. Cooperate fully with police and prosecutors, and if the man is found guilty, aggressively advocate the maximum sentence allowed by law. Anything less is unjust and puts the entire church under the same threat Jesus uttered in Luke 17:2.
Joel Rainey,
Give me a call. I still have the same cell number. I would like to catch up with you.
You will have already called the cops, met with church staff and leaders, and prepared a statement. If the alleged perp is as prominent as CB describes, you will have already been contacted by local media and not a few church members. The statement of the church will likely have been printed as a part of the printed news and read as a part of radio/TV news reports. If you got that right, there is little to add Sunday.
At Sunday’s service, you would read the prepared statement which covers the salient matters. I would not append much ad libbing to this. The pastor needs to be seen as gravely concerned and human, but not mechanical. I would absolutely not have an open discussion but I would lead prayer for the situation as it unfolds rather than have a gut-wrenching public altar call prayer time. Just my personal preference.
Media likely will seek out individual members for comment and may even be present at the service. Either the pastor or other designated leader should be the sole contact person for comment and their response should point to the prepared statement and that’s all.
It should have been noted that (following CB’s scenario) the abuse apparently did not occur on church property or as a part of any church group or outing, nor did the incident involve any church staff member or volunteer and that the church has reviewed its child protection policies to be sure they are current and as effective in protecting children as possible.
The goal of expressing proper concern for the alleged victim and other potential victims is paramount. The congregation, particularly parents, will wish to be reassured about the church’s policies. The prepared statement should note prominently that the matter is in the hands of law enforcement and that there is no further information to be shared publicly.
In regard to the pastor and his family, the pastor needs to show his family that sometimes it requires courage to do the right thing and there was really no choice about the right thing here. While there may be future consequences for him and his family personally, he should express confidence that the Lord will handle those and that the family will be safe resting in His hands.
I don’t see any need to mention the name of the alleged perp, though it is public record by now. If named, the standard wording using “allegedly” should be used.
And, pastor, you aren’t the victim here. Don’t start feeling sorry for yourself and don’t try to gain sympathy for the church being put in a tough spot.
“And, pastor, you aren’t the victim here. Don’t start feeling sorry for yourself and don’t try to gain sympathy for the church being put in a tough spot.”
Right as rain, William Thornton. Pastors who play the martyr card in such situations display a lack of character.
I think I would say to my congregation, “We have a great God. He is full of mercy and forgiveness. He is gentle and kind. He disciplines to restore fellowship. He is to be fearfully and faithfully worshipped. Nothing escapes His watchful eye. Vengeance is His alone. Jesus is God and He is conforming us to His image with every event, in every activity and even in the night watches. Today we will worship Him in Spirit and Truth. Now take your Bible and turn with me to…….”
If I was a pastor, my congregation would know what the leadership would do in every situation and how believers should react in every situation. Discipline would be enacted toward the gossip or troublemaker just as much as the perp if repentance is not received. If we are not prepared when sin comes within our church, and it will, we are behind the eight-ball already and probably need to prepare for a church split. We cannot be unprepared and then ask the question, WWJD in the middle of the circumstance. We must be living it before the incident in order to go through the situation. The church must live on the principles of Truth and it is leadership’s duty to not just declare it but help the church body live it on a daily basis. That is true ministry. We must have the faith of Job and patiently wait upon the living God whom we know loves us and is conforming us to the image of His dear Son through all things working together for good.
If there are people who are going to leave over this, it may be a good time to thin the herd. It also may be a good time for the other half to exercise the principles of love from a pure heart toward them. Either way, God is glorified. If I lose my job over doing the right thing, I just keep going. It has happened to me before in the secular world.
“””If I was a pastor, my congregation would know what the leadership would do in every situation and how believers should react in every situation.”””
If only life came in such neat little packages.
I remember drills on my submarine. They had drills for every situation imaginable. But, when the real thing hit, it was like a whole new scenario. Preparation helped, to be sure, but it was not a panacea.
The problem with planning for contingencies in church is that every situation, though similar, involves people and the syncretism does not allow for a cookie cutter approach to crisis.
Frank L.
If it is drills, I would agree with you that it would not work. We are to be trained in such character that we respond like Christ in these situations. The qualifications of Bishop and Deacon are similar but they are simply characteristic of a person who walks with Christ. I may not be qualified at this time but it should not hinder me from pursuing to live my life this way on a daily basis. We all should live and produce the fruit of the Spirit. If we do, we will be prepared for events we would never think could happen. Yes, there would be shock, but we would respond the right way in every situation. Think of Job. We do not train for the sin, we train in the character of Christ and people will respond like Christ. The problem with the SBC is that we focus on things or numbers and not character. If I was a pastor and did not develop the character of Christ in His body, I am a failure. Believe me, the world (CPS) is never going to do that. You are right, it is not cookie cutter, it is a lifestyle we Christians must live and so must the leadership live and proclaim.
Marines train men to obey. Then they train for combat. Every situation is different but they know what to do in every situation; obey and execute.
I can go with that.
WOW, there are some smart people here, I think I’ll save this in case it happens to me.
My initial thoughts were, tell the truth, as far as you know it.
You can say Mr X was arrested, you don’t know what actually happened so you can’t speak to that.
You can say we had plans in place to try to prevent this from happening etc. but that doesn’t offer people much after the fact.
And don’t be the focus of attention, focus on those hurting from all this, the real victims, and there will probably be many, including the accused’s family, more child victims, their families, those close to the accused etc.
But be honest, pray a lot and trust in God.
In making my statement I would say Bro x has been arrested for child molestation. He was not “alledgelly” arrested. He was arrested. One can read a copy of the local jail docket from the pulpit every Sunday if he chooses. There is no legal reason not to say one of our church members, Mr x has been arrested. The arrest is fact in CB’s scenario.
Putting myself in the shoes of the parent of the child, I cant say that calling the cops before notifying me sits well. I am not saying in the least that I would try to handle this myself, but I know my child better than anyone…even the preacher or the policement in the church. I may be able to offer insight on my child’s mindset and mental health condition…which may be a factor. No interviews without me or my wife present.
Either way, come to me FIRST. Then you can call the cops. If its really me your calling, I’ll be around there somewhere.
Amen. Be with your child when the police and CPS gets involved. Never let her be alone with either of them. Their methods create as much spiritual harm as she has already gone through. Never let CPS counsel her. Take her to a good Christian counselor who knows how to walk her through this without creating hate. You don’t want her to stay a victim all her life.
Some states do allow parents to be present. Some do not. In general, most people who have training, knowledge, and experience in interviewing children who have made a claim of sexual abuse against an adult agree that it is best for the parent or parents not to be present for the initial interview.
There are valid reasons for that position.
No agency within the US government is to be trusted in any form or at any time. They are trained to get information and they do not care about your child as much as they care about building a solid case. They are only building a case and can hurt your child more than they will ever help your child. If not a parent, someone at the church should sit in and have a biblical measure of control over the situation. One thing I know is, law enforcement and CPS believe it is ok for them to lie to get the information needed for their case. Many tell the child that they are Christian and yet use worldly methods that hurt the child spiritually. For me, I will be with my child all the way through this situation and the government will have no influence on her.
There are valid reasons for someone being with the child on every interview, too.
Right. It goes without saying, in my view, that parents woukd be notified first. Before anyone else.
In fact, as it relates to police and the like…. I’m pretty certain interviews by police or CPS cant be done without parental involvement, consent, or at the minimum notification. (at least I’d hope that’s the case)
Depends on the jurisdiction. It also depends on the jurisdiction whether or not you can legally notify parents first.
In most cases, the general rule is that parents must be present, but a social worker can replace parents as an advocate for the child if the police/CPS deems it appropriate.
And consider this: how much would you inform a parent about these issues on the phone? How long are you going to wait to call the police? And what is the blowback if the parent shows up, tells you not to call the police because they “know” the child is lying?
Notification to the parent cannot replace following the necessary steps, and should include the “I have contacted the authorities as required by law.”
I was mainly considering myself as the example assuming I would be present at the church anyways.
Also, having a knowledge about the childs mental state would also help in knowing if the child is telling the truth. If this is something that has happened before (child accusing someone of inappropriate activity) I would be the best source of information for the authorities.
Children dont ALWAYS tell the truth. When I was a kid, I did some pretty horrible things with my lies.
Either way, I’m the parent and I know my child better than anyone.
5. Untrue allegations of child sexual assault are frequent, children often making up stories about adults to get them in trouble.
FALSE. Children rarely lie about sexual assault. Statistics show that in 98% of cases children’s statements are found to be true. Children who report sexual abuse often describe sexual behaviour in detail, information they are unlikely to have unless their stories are true.
http://www.rosiesplace.com.au/child-sexual-assault-myths-and-facts.html
4. Most children don’t know the people who assault them.
FALSE. Approximately 85% of offenders are known to the child. Most offenders are relatives or close friends of the child whom the child trusts.
same source as above
10. A child says that they have been sexually assaulted and then later says that it didn’t really happen. This clearly means that they are lying.
FALSE. Children may retract an allegation because of enormous pressure placed on them to make it go away. The family may be at risk of breaking up, parents distressed and the child has no support. Disbelieving adults give the child the idea that if they say it was a lie things will return to normal. However an offender will not stop abusing and often becomes more aggressive knowing that if the child says something again people will not believe them.
same source as above
You may think you know your child, but you do not know your child under these circumstances and even as a parent it is not up to you to decide whether the child is lying or not. It is up to the proper authorities, you as a parent should side with your child and cooperate with the authorities. Your child’s whole rest of their life depends on it.
18. People close to a child should know that sexual abuse is happening.
FALSE. Sexual assault occurs because the offender works hard to keep it a secret. His grooming of the child extends to others in the child’s network to ensure that people don’t suspect the abuse
same source as above.
When Children Tell…
Believe them
Stress that whatever has happened is not their fault.
Tell them that you know how hard it is to tell but they have done what is right.
Say you know that some adult do such thing.
Do everything you can to comfort and reassure the child
http://www.rosiesplace.com.au/what-is-sexual-assult.html
“””” Sexual assault occurs because the offender works hard to keep it a secret. “”””
ABSOLUTELY!
OK then.
In middle school my girlfriend would get in touble with her Dad and then slam her arm in the closet door and go to school and report him for child abuse…multiple times. It CAN happen.
Just sayin. I mean, I dont want to get in the way of the “proper authorities” but my knowledge of my child trumps anyone elses.
IMO —-
I’m contacting parents first….the government is instituted by God, as was the church, but neither is superior to the parents….plain and simple.
The only exception to this would be if the parent is the accused.
Parents are God odained earthly custodians of children….we have nor the govt. in my mind have the biblical high ground over that of parents.
Tarheel, I understand what you are saying. There is a strong caveat in the statutes of my state that a mandated reporter is NOT to be an investigator.
If one were to contact a parent first it could have the unintended consequence of jeopardizing the investigation.
As I said, I understand what you are saying and I will not comment on what I have or have not done.
I’m not talking about investigating….I’m talking about notification.
Maybe i’ll add these caveats….I’ll make a good faith effort to contact parents first….if I can’t…I call police….if I do in the course of the face to face notification I’m explaining that I’m compelled to contact authorities.
Adam G. in NC and Tarheel,
It is true (or it should be, sometimes it is not) that a parent knows their child better than anyone. I, personally, would want to know first if my child claimed someone ahd abused them.
However, in our culture, there are other realities that must be considered when a child makes a claim of sexual abuse. One sad, very sad, but fart too often reality is that a parent, step-parent, or guardian is somehow involved in the abusive conduct that has been perpetrated upon the child. There are people who sale they children’s services to other people.
You, as a pastor or any other ministry professional do not have the luxury of first notifying the parent. I wish we did, but we do not. In general, most of us are not criminal investigators. Therefore, the best move a minister can make in dealing with a child who has claimed to be sexually abused by an adult is to make the first call to law enforcement.
My typos are far too many in the above comment tot he gentlemen from NC, but I hope you understand the intended content.
Rosie’s place is a counseling center assisting children, young people and families in sexual assault.
I will add to this conversation…that we also need to keep in mind that some people have been falsely accused of sex crimes, as well. And, DNA tests have pointed this out…also, women and children later taking back their accusations…
Also, I had a friend, who was falsely accused of sexual abuse of a teen, minor boy….I cant go into all the details, but, let’s just say that the boy was trying to keep his over the legal age girlfriend out of trouble after this Pastor caught them having sex…the boy was underage….
Later, in court, the boy and girl were caught in so many lies that it was embarrassing for them….and, as the boy left the courtroom, after his case being thrown out….he flipped the bird to all of the Pastors friends and family….
My friend was innocent, and thankfully the court saw thru all of this….but, if he hadnt of had a good lawyer, he might’ve ended up in prison….
David
When males discuss sex abuse of children, the conversation inevitably turns to false accusations. While such is a part of all this, it is a minor part. My sense is that when false accusations are given more prominence than is deserved, the more of our colleagues who will feel a need to do an in-house investigation prior to the reporting of an incident of child sex abuse.
This is a grave mistake.
I’m no lawyer, but if I remember my civics classes correctly a person charged with any crime is presumed innocent until found guilty. Much damage is done to alleged perpetrators and their families by all the talk and presumptions of guilt even within the church. While you arr correct that false accusation is given much more prominence than it deserves, that doesn’t negate the possibility of false accusation. I’ve seen it at work. False accusation ruins people and devastates families. One thing I’ve had to tell people in my church is that gossip is a sin that is confronted in scripture. Talking about allegations before the authorities have a chance to do their job is unnecessarily harmful to people. We need to spend more time praying for all involved and less time talking to one another about those involved.
I’ve seen and heard of women, who cry rape when they get mad at some man….believe me, some people are mean enough to do this to a person…and not bat an eye.
But, of course, we should take all allegations seriously…very seriously… and we should report it to the police, and let the law take care of it….then, we need to do our part in ministering to the hurting, and bring healing in the name of Jesus.
David
To say nothing of custody disputes…..I cannot count (using the fingers on both habds, and the toes on both feet) the false and or exaggerated accusations levied by one spouse at the other….while it is not always related to sexual molestation accusations…I have seen that happen more than once.
I have even witnessed cases of coaxing by one parent. grandparent, family friend of children into saying things that are devastating while the child has little if any clue that they are being manipulated.
I would agree that most accusations of physical abuse of any kind are likely true ( to some extent anyway) but I think its also obvious that false accusations do happen and part of our strategy for dealing with this must take that into consideration….not in the notification of authorities phase…they must investigate…not me….but in the “what do we do/say now” phase.
We have some biblical ministry to do after the police/DFS is notified. That is where we, IMO, must be careful to not engage in gospel destructive behavior of any kind…which includes how we treat the alleged victims, as well as how we treat the accused, and even further how we treat the guilty.
We’re all over the lot here. Presumption of innocence is the legal standard. While credible reports of abuse do not demand presumption of guilt, the response must consider safety of children to be paramount, not the well being of the alleged perp. The church should be gracious to all without appearing to rally around the accused as if he is the victim. It is almost expected that a prominent individual will be believed at the expense of a child (“We all know xxxx and he couldn’t have done such a thing”).
Perhaps a
I’m not advocating that the alleged perp is to be believed over the child. I’m for any action that protects children. My concern for both children and the accused would be that the alleged peep would be removed from any church activity that involves children and that he/she would be present at church functions in the surrounding company of adults. The alleged perp would have to determine if he/she is willing to attend under the discipline and direction of church leadership. If the perp chooses to go elsewhere to church it would be our obligation to inform the other church of the situation.
All accusations must be treated seriously and the authorities must be involved from the very moment the accusation is made. My point is the tremendous damage done by the church fellowship succumbing to gossip and runoff instead of seeking truth and real justice. I’ve dealt with this in our community recently and I have personally shut down several loose tongues in the process.
That should be perp and rumor, not peep and runoff.
Vol,
I agree about godless women making such claims. It does happen and it has ruined some good men. However, I am not addressing godless women. I am addressing the problem of sexual abuse against children. Rarely do children make false accusations and when they do, it is usually detectable fairly early by those trained to interview sexually abused children. However, each claim must be treated as a criminal investigation.
CB,
If a man is guilty of abusing a child, then he most certainly should be punished.
I can just tell you that my friend was accused by a 16 yr old boy… I believe he was…..because the boy was trying to keep his girlfriend out of trouble….she was like 18 or 19. My friend was innocent. Thankfully, the court saw thru the lies.
But, I agree with you….if someone is abusing a child, then they should face the music. And, if we’re told about abuse, by a child, then we should immediately get the law involved, and let them sort out the details.
David
Vol,
Situations like you have described in your comment do happen. Frankly, I think they are happening more frequently due to an increase of sociopathic and psychopathic behavior of people under twenty (20) years of age in our culture.
Such things do add an additional burden upon ministry people in dealing with sex crimes against minor children. Actually, your testimony of the events you have described give even more credibility to the admonition that upon being informed of the possibility of a sex crime against a child, a pastor should immediately notify law enforcement.
I feel for young men who are serving local churches as shepherds in our culture today. They are facing and will face problems that were not as prevalent in the past. I pray that they are adequately trained to make wise and godly decisions. I think our seminaries, Christian liberal arts colleges, and Bible colleges need to be more aggressive in training ministry students in the initial response to children and families who have been affected by a sex crime.
William Thornton,
You are right. When males discuss sex abuse of children, or in general, the conversation inevitably turns to false accusations.
I have been in some panel discussions as to why that happens.
Here is one theory that I personally believe to be true.
The Bible teaches that any sexual activity outside of marriage is sin. Jesus Himself stated that to lust after a female in one’s heart is sin.
Every male has committed sexual sin. This includes every man who comments on this blog and any other blog. Therefore, many men do not understand the difference between sexual sin and sex crimes.
Sexual activity between an adult and a minor child is a sin. Every right thinking person who frequents this blog will acknowledge that. However, any kind of sexual activity between an adult and a minor child is also a crime in this country. Some well meaning men do not fully comprehend that fact. Any man who involves a minor child in any form of sexual activity has committed a crime. Men who have sexual relations of any kind are criminals.
It is hard for some Christian ministers to see people who are in active in church as being criminals. I have heard pastors say of other men who have been convicted of a sex crime with a child, “He is not really a criminal.”
However, the fact remains. Men who engage in sexual activity with minor children have committed a crime and they are criminals and must be recognized as such.
That should be: “Men who have sexual relations of any kind ‘with children’ are criminals.”
That needed to be corrected or we will all need to turn ourselves in to the police. 🙂
I would simply say that the accused is not a criminal until the gavel falls on the judge’s bench.
Duckman dale,
The person that is accused of a sex crime against a minor child is a “convicted” criminal after the “gavel falls on the judge’s bench.”
If he/she is guilty of a sex crime against a minor child even prior to the fall of the judge’s gavel he/she is a criminal. After he/she is convicted in court of the crime, he/she is then a “convicted” criminal.
Anyone who has been accused of sexual activity with a minor child has been accused of committing a crime.
I would hope that all of us recognize that when a credible report of abuse has been made against staff or volunteers our actions as pastor must be to take precautions by suspending any activity of the individual that involves children. On that basis such actions are a presumption of guilt regardless of our feelings otherwise. The staff member may be suspended with pay, and have restricted activities, but sufficient steps have to be taken to ensure protection of children.
It’s difficult in a lot of ways.
And I would agree with that. My point is that trial by public opinion is not acceptable in the church. If the individual is accused and found not guilty then that person is not and has not been a criminal. Thus, that individual should not be treated as such. Unfortunately, the stigma of unfounded allegations hangs with a person for a lifetime. That isn’t right.
I’m certainly in agreement with you and many others here. But to be accused of committing a crime is NOT the same as having committed the crime.
I don’t think anyone is arguing otherwise, Dale, but the pastor and church have no choice but to take action that treats the accused as if the charges are true.
I hope none of us have to deal with any of this.
Maybe I’m talking past the issue, and I certainly agree with the things written here. It is a horrible thing to deal with. I can attest to the horror of allegations that are proven true and those found to be false. None of it is something I want to deal with again.
Dale,
How would you feel if you had to turn someone in and they had to spend over $10K to defend themselves and it turned out that they were innocent all along? Do you think that person would continue to go to your church? Do you think you could be sued? I feel for you guys. I have heard that there is a law pending that every person, regardless of position, will have to turn people in. It is going to get bad and lawsuits are going to fly. The percentage of lawsuits may be low, but what are the odds you make the wrong decision?
While I feel badly for the wrongly accused individual I think the greater risk lies in not pursuing justice for all those involved. That person would likely not attend our church again. As I said above the stigma will probably remain. Could I be sued? I don’t know, but its a risk I’m willing to take for the child. I’m not advocating anything except what I see as a proper response from the church. I would remove the alleged perp from any position held, I would encourage that person to seek legal counsel, and I would encourage that person to seek personal and family counseling to help them through the process they now face.
Duckman Dale,
I understand your concerns and I have them also. I hope you see my point here also. (In a later post, if Dave Miller allows, I intend to share a scenario wherein the accused was innocent. BTW, the scenario shared in this post is based on actual events. I will share the outcome later.)
As you already know, any sexual activity between an adult and a child is a crime. I think we can establish that as fact. I also think we all would agree that accusations/legal charges/criminal convictions against people for crimes against children are pregnant with possible outcomes. To put it in plain terms, it is messy and it is gut wrenching to go through for all involved. However it is life altering for the child, the true victim. I think we can all agree as to the above being reality.
Therefore, in the majority, those who have dealt with such things over a period of time and on multiple occasions, generally agree that the charge of sexual misconduct by a child against an adult must be reacted to as one would react to a serious crime, such as murder.
I believe that any person who frequents this blog upon finding a child hanging in the closet of an abandoned house would immediately call law enforcement. Why? Because the possibility of a crime is self evident.
We must learn that the accusation of a child against an adult of sexual abuse presents the strong possibility that a crime has taken place. Therefore, we must take the actions one would take when faced with the reality that a crime may have taken place. We reality do not have the legitimate option of another course of action.
I certainly see and agree with what you say here, SEC CB. no argument from me at all.
Duckman Dale,
Having been in local church ministry as long as you have, I bet you will also agree that dealing with such horrors in the church will keep a fellow up at night on bended knees, asking for more light.
However, that is nothing compared to the nightmares of the child involved. No one suffers in these situations as does the child, no one.
Agreed, CB. It sends shivers down my spine and breaks my heart.
Duckman Dale,
This past week I has sessions with a multitude of individuals. Therefore, I can make the following statement without breaking any confidence or revealing any facts.
As I listened to the story of a particular young person I had the following thought/prayer/plea as they left my office. “Surely Lord, the time is near? Come now, Lord Jesus. Come now.”
Dale,
I agree with you. The only thing I would add is to walk through it with him/her. Same with the child. Our churches need to be trained on how to minister with both. From what I see on this stream, many do not follow them any further than when the police and CPS get involved. That is not our mission as believers. Follow up and comfort them all the way. Do not let the government change the teaching of the church. Believe me, they do.
I have not seen any comments that would change my predisposition to make reasonable attempt notify parent(s) first. I would only share this with them face to face, not over the phone….and it must happen immendiatly…as in the same night I hear of the allegation.
I’m thinking that the only exceptions would be if the accusation is against a member of the household, father, stepfather, brother, step brother, etc…that is common sense and could serve as a tip off so to speak…
However, if the alleged abuser is someone that is not so connected to the household – I feel a compulsion to follow the God ordained order…Parents are the primary. They not only deserve to know first….but they deserve to hear it from me if their child came to me instead of them. I am not usurp the role of the parent.
In my convo were the parents I would explain that I am required to notify the authorities…but if they would like to make that phone call in my presence then that is OK…if not I will have to make it immediately. Whether they make the call or I do…I would be more than willing, of course, to present myself to the authorities for any questions they may have.
I am betting the above is the easiest part of the whole situation….Then the gospel work of ministering to all involved (including the church as a whole) begins.
Tarheel,
I understand your position. I truly do. And I wish it could be as you state it should be. However, over time, I have learned that I do not have that option.
I’ve pretty much stayed out of Part 2 of this discussion. But I will add this general comment (addressed to no one in particular) and no more…
Pastor, if an adult was criminally abused, she would call the authorities herself. The only reason that you even have a decision on whether or not to immediately call the authorities is because the child in question is not mature enough to have called them immediately without your assistance. The fact is that the first adult whom the child confides in should have immediately called prior to notifying you of anything. And any adult—you included—who delays calling the authorities is simply abusing their position of “lord-of-the-phone and decider-of-whom-shall-be-called-and-when.” The pastor is not the governmental liaison between the police and the child or between the police and the accused or between the police and the witnesses. The pastor’s “reservations” will carry no weight with the authorities. The pastor’s “investigation” will be disregarded by the authorities. The police do not need the pastor to “get all the details”—they will get the details themselves directly from the child and the accused and the witnesses. The idea that the child should be denied access to the authorities until the pastor interviews, investigates and assesses, makes about as much sense as seeing the building on fire and delaying the call to the fire department for 48 hours until you can investigate the causes and interview everyone involved—after all, the decision is yours to make, and the firemen respect your authority and opinion (meanwhile the building burns).
So I say one last time: in such a scenario, your opinion is not needed, your interviews are not needed, your investigation is not needed—all that is needed from you is your phone and the good sense to use it.
I will not reply any further on this thread.
Ken: Exactly.
Ken Hamrick’s comment pretty well covers the bases. Sex crimes perpetrated upon children is a complex issue. However, the pastor’s initial response to being made aware by the child, or any other person, is rather simple.
Make your first call to law enforcement. Let them handle the investigation as to whether a crime has been committed or not.
Another point that may be worthy of consideration here is that if the complaint is public knowledge within the church body and you have already contacted law enforcement you will have one less issue to deal with as you do what you should turn your immediate attention to after having made the initial call.
You can turn your full attention to doing what you are called of God and equipped to do, minister to one of His flocks in a time of volatile crisis. Frankly, in such cases, your plate will be full for quite some time . . . . if you can survive in your position after the first three months afterwards. Sexual abuse of a minor child is a hard thing to deal with in a local church.
I want to be clear yet again…..I’m not investigating….I’m only following the biblical order of things. The govt. Does not trump the God given responsibility of a parent to parent thier child.
Absent the abuser being in the household….they’re getting contacted first.
Again, this is no way an investigation….it’s only alerting parents, those who know and love thier child th most. We’re having VBS this week. I can honestly say I love all the children and teens involved – but I don’t / can’t love them like Mom and Dad. I’m not thier parent, I’m a pastor.
I teach parental responsibity for all aspects of the welfare of hire child. I just skip over them at a time when they’re, to say the least, very valuable….what am I saying about parents? I’m essentially saying…”you aren’t important right now – I, he cops, and DFS know what’s best. Step aside.”.
God did not ordain the govt. or th church for that matter to raise children. I believe that we, the church, are to come alongside parents…never to usurp the parental role.
Will will follow God or man?
Now on a personal note. If I’m not the first contact if my child were to express something like this….. Oh, boy. It ain’t gonna be pretty.
We as Christians and pastors get all up in arms (as we should) about abortion and abortive meds being given to children/teens without a minimum of parental knowledge…..the reason for this, at least for me, is not just anti abortion but pro parent.
Pro parent extends to this issue as well, or it’s only a convienent and somewhat hypocritical talking point against abortion. IMO.
I’d also add that being pro parent is being pro child.
Ugh. Mobile blogging and auto correct.
This scenario is very United States or western culture centric. What about in
non-civilized and non-govermental organized areas of the world.
The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest protestant missionary sending agency in the world surely we encounter those situations?
For example in cultures where those in authority celebrate child molestation.
Are you still going to call the authorities?
I mean who called called the authorities for Aisha?
BTW-I love western culture.
“What about in non-civilized and non-govermental organized areas of the world?”
Robert I Masters,
I once got fired for giving a response to almost that exact question. So I will stand down from giving a response here and simply respond by stating, you are right? The scenario is exclusively confined to the United States.
I’m not aware of a culture that explicitly encourages molestation of children per se (well, other than some fundamentalist sects on the border of Arizona and Utah that occasionally escape to Texas). I would like to think that the IMB has developed a more responsive (and responsible) policy than the one that accidentally let a missionary continue on the field for 22 years in Indonesia while he continued to molest young MKs…
But I will offer that’s very precisely the kind of problem we’re talking about. Not responding when there is sufficient knowledge to respond. And trying to pretend the problem will go away when it is much more likely to metastasize if sunlight doesn’t enter the room.
Greg,
Surely you consider FGM, molestation or abuse and certainly that happens in Indonesia ! Do not Islamic authorities sanction that abuse.
http://tinyurl.com/bapor28
Bart Barber provides an excellent response and pathway to address this issue.
We live in difficult times. Evil has been unleashed in various forms – some of it finding comfortable lodging in church. “Trust” is critical in the sanctuaries we call churches, but I’m not sure we can rest in that without some level of paranoia. In the local news this morning, was a report about a church organist (not SBC) who poisoned her husband, son, and daughter. All were trusted members of the church music program and active in community missions. Two are dead, one in critical condition and the organist in jail. I’m sure that pastor is considering carefully his next sermon. Besides the practical advice provided by those commenting on this article, these are days to pray diligently for a new level of discernment to try and test the spirits about us.
Max, as you point out, saved sinners are still sinners. We never lose the capacity for doing evil. It is a battle that most be fought against the old nature moment by moment.
We do indeed need a new level of discernment to meet the new level of evil in our society.
Frank L, while saved sinners are still sinners, there is another element to consider as well: not everybody that goes to church is the Church. Wolves in sheep clothing are finding corners in our sanctuaries to hide … the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. Pray.
“Wolves in sheep clothing are finding corners in our sanctuaries to hide … the enemy comes to steal, kill and destroy. Pray.”
A true statement. I think I have met several. When you look into their eyes there is a strange vacancy.
cb scott,
I am so glad you are hitting this topic head on. I can see your compassion for the victims. I have worked with these victims for 15 years, but we didn’t get them until they became hardened, and got in trouble. Thank you cb.
Thank you for the kind words, Jess Alford.
Max,
Amen!
Max,
I cannot find the verse, where saved sinners are still sinners.
Please enlighten me.
Jess, actually I was quoting Frank L on that in my response to his comment – those were his words not mine. We all know the struggle of transitioning from the old man to the new man … sin happens. But the Apostle John gives us hope: “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father – Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1). However, there is “sin” and there is “evil” … my concern lies with our ability to discern the difference in that which goes on in church.
http://www.news9.com/story/22678754/teen-tells-police-tulsa-pastor-is-father-of-her-unborn-child
One of my favorite blogs is Wartburg Watch. The toe ladies there are sensible, thorough, and have far more knowledge and experience in this area than I.
Today they mention this: ” Deb and I are aware of a serial pedophile, now serving time, who conned the pastors in a church. He learned that a teen was going to report an incident. He went to the pastors first and jovially told them that there was some silly locker room humor going on at an event. He made it sound insignificant, joking about it. He even offered to resign. However, he had conned them so well that they laughed it off and told the family of the teen that he was “misreading” what was going on. He wasn’t. This abuser went on to horribly molest a number of kids with impunity until he was caught outside the church.”
We have some who propose notifying the accused, and not a few who focus on false accusations. The example above shows one reason to not notify the accused at least until authorities have been contacted. Pastors are notoriously in-savvy in this area and are also prone to believe their staff member or volunteer worker who is so faithful in church.
“Un-savvy”
“Pastors are notoriously in-savvy in this area and are also prone to believe their staff member or volunteer worker who is so faithful in church.”
William Thornton,
No matter if you state it “in” or “un” :-), you are absolutely correct.